A (silly?) request regarding the mention of Microsoft here

[Reverend]

Some time ago, I got an email from a Microsoft employee about the possibility of banning the "word" called "M$" in the B3D forums. I didn't give it much thought then simply because I wasn't a part of site at that time.

I just got a similar email, but from a different Microsoft employee.

I am not here to discuss about Microsoft's business practices and I hope the mods here wouldn't allow it too, not in this thread anyway.

I'm simply asking B3D if they think it would benefit the site if the "word" called "M$" was banned.

I don't care either way and I would've sent this as an email to Rys privately but it struck me that this may be a, er, contentious topic.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Nope, I see no benefit to that at all.

 

[Simon F]

I do know for certain that members of Microsoft's DirectX team read the B3D forums.

I must admit that it never occured to me that "M Dollar" might be considered derogatory. Perhaps, as a less authoritarian approach, we should simply add some suggestions for "acceptable" abreviations for company names to the FAQ/posting rules.

 

[London Geezer]

Well i know this is a personal opinion many people disagree with, but the whole concept of "banning words" just strikes me as mostly useless. Any word can be used in a derogrative way, and certain words which are considered "derogratory" sometimes are used in a totally acceptable way.
And at the same time, people will use words that are considered "normal" (and therefore unbannable) in a derogratory way, and make the sentence or conversation more offensive than any use of "banned words".

As an example (the first that came to my mind). The word Black. It's an obviously normal word, used in everyday life, it's a very common colour most consider "cool". At the same time, i think i don't need to explain how derogratory it can be if used unappropriately.

It's not the words that are derogratory, it's the people and the way these people use the words that is derogratory. Always been and always will be.

Words are just words. It's what we do with them that can change any conversation from civil to confrontational.
Obviously this is not only valid for internet forums, it's every day life kind of behaviour.


But i do understand that in an internet forum, where moderation is needed and where the few moderators have to cut corners as they possibly cannot check every single post to see what connotation the words have, banning words can be common practice... In which case, i understand why you guys ban words, i just don't agree with it in principle.

 

[Zaphod]

Is anyone really offended by that? It’s such an obvious and overused pun that I’d tend to see it more as a colloquialism than an improper term holding any real defamatory power.

 

[StefanS]

Don't you dare to remove my l33t sp33ch!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Is M$ not a very rich company? Have they not been rapacious and been found guilty all over the world of illegal use of their monopoly in several anti-trust suits?

Maybe if they would stop acting the way they do and try and be more "fluffy bunny", people wouldn't think of them as M$ ? When people apply a generally accepted and mildly derogatory nickname to someone or something, it's just a reflection of the generally perceived attitude to that company. We think of M$ as a money grubbing behemoth out to destroy all other competitors and screw as much money out of customers because that's the way we think they act. Whether it's true or not is somewhat irrelevent - it's their reputation, based on the way they've acted and the things they've done. Just think of it as the computer-savvy audience simply "embracing and extending" Micro$oft's own marketing machine.

Personally, I think anyone from M$ who complains about this should have better things to do. They should just sit back on their big pile of money, think about "sticks and stones" and get on with getting their next operating system sorted properly. Trying to get every site on the internet to stop using a commonly accepted nickname for a large multinational company is a waste of time and energy.

 

[London Geezer]

Is anyone really offended by that? It’s such an obvious and overused pun that I’d tend to see it more as a colloquialism than an improper term holding any real defamatory power.

Well, it implies that MS is in the business just to make money, and that they will try anything to keep their billion-dollar profit figures. Which is obviously not true!!1!11

 

[pascal]

Everybody knows that M$ is an organization which goals are the development of the human race.

Just because they have a global monopoly capable to enforce people pay $100/year for software services (with a projected 1 billion customers and $100 Billion in revenue/year when DRM is finally deep installed in all computers worldwide and connected to the net) and are trying to control the world doesnt make them a bad company. See the good side, this revenue can balance the oil imports in the future.

M$ M$ M$ :smile2:

 

[pascal]

Now serious.

I do know for certain that members of Microsoft's DirectX team read the B3D forums.

I must admit that it never occured to me that "M Dollar" might be considered derogatory. Perhaps, as a less authoritarian approach, we should simply add some suggestions for "acceptable" abreviations for company names to the FAQ/posting rules.

Never occured to me too.
Imagine trying to enforce or sugest it to people in the console forum.

The best thing that can be done is they complain directlly to the forum community.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Rev: I didn't think this was an issue in the serious parts of Beyond3D.

 

[Jawed]

Come on, surely everyone knows that M$ is a pun on variable names in Microsoft Basic, back in the late 70s.



Jawed

 

[Mize]

Amazing that M$ can care about $omething that trivial. M$ should spend their energies on $ecurity update$ and bug fixe$ rather than on bitching about a funny nickname that pervade$ the net.

 

[digitalwanderer]

M$ is offended by the term "M$"?

TOO F-ING BAD!!!!

I'm personally offended by DRM, but I don't see them exactly catering to my wishes now either.

M$ M$ M$
M$ M$ M$
M$ M$ M$

 

[Arwin]

I thought M$ started popping up on the net because of the liberal amount of cash they spent for getting people to buy Xbox consoles? Anyway, there's no need to worry - $ony is becoming almost as common.

Seriously though, I think people are free to express their like or dislike of a company in any way possible. The only motives for B3D that come into consideration here is the kind of professional atmosphere they intend to strive after. Considering the current lay-out of the forums, however, that would still leave a lot of room (in, say, Console Games and RSPC forums) for people to express themselves less 'professionally'.

But even so, it is also about efficient expression. M$ for most people is short for Microsoft, the company we all know is one of the richest in the world, on 90+ % of all personal computers, and having no other goal in life than keeping both of these variables as high as possible. If they want to change this, it's partly up to them to change that perception, preferably by action rather than marketing. I'm sure they know how they can do it - certainly the Bill & Melinda Foundation is a good example, and they only have to tie something like that to Microsoft in order to improve their image (if they have, I haven't noticed - so far it seemed a Bill & Melinda co-op rather than a Bill & M$ co-op, even if Bill got his money through M$, this is his private money as far as I know).

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

TOO F-ING BAD!!!!

Well exactly. Poor giant rapacious multinational corporation (convicted anti-trust lawbreaker) - we hurt it's itty-bitty feelings. Boo-hoo.


In fact, this might just be one of Rev's threads trying to get a rise out of the forum, it's such a ridiculous thing...

 

[London Geezer]

.... Bitty!.....

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

.... Bitty!.....

Surely you mean bitty ? Or there's the movie and t-shirt. Honestly LB, a post without links is just not on...

 

[ronin-2]

I have seen Microsoft employees comment on this in other forums like on Ars Technica/Doom9 where some of them post regularly, the word isn't banned but & generally someone who goes around saying M$ will get frowned on. Most refer to Microsoft as just MS.

Also I think one MS employee comments on their MSDN forums about the matter, I for one agree with him (no I don't work for MS).

All other things aside, please stop using "M$" to refer to Microsoft as it is unprofessional.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I have seen Microsoft employees comment on this in other forums like on Ars Technica/Doom9 where some of them post regularly, the word isn't banned but & generally someone who goes around saying M$ will get frowned on. Most refer to Microsoft as just MS.

Also I think one MS employee comments on their MSDN forums about the matter, I for one agree with him (no I don't work for MS).

Posting here is not part of my job. I don't have to be "professional" about it. If I want to express my thoughts about calling MS "M$", then I'll do so. I'm a customer, so I can express my perceptions of them how I like. If they don't like what is a small dig, well boo-hoo again.

If employees of M$ can post on their blog about how much it hurts their feelings, then we can post our feeling about M$ as a corporate entity. Otherwise B3D might as well close down the forums for fear that someone might refer to any company in a less than complimentary fashion. Given all the various opinions we express on the corporate actions of every company in the tech arena, there is no one that is immune from criticism.

What next, no one is allowed to say anything bad about Sony, IBM, ATI, Nvidia, AMD, Rambus, TSMC, EA, Atari, JoWood, etc, etc? Criticism is part of public life and business. If M$ can't grow a thick skin and don't want to change their public perception by changing their corporate actions, then they should close shop and give up.

Maybe I should just refer to them as "rapacious convicted anti-trust multinational"? More factual for poor little-old M$ ? Do you think the anonymous M$ staffer would prefer that?

I mean really, nicknaming the corporate entity as M$ is just the same as calling someone "Porky" or "Fatty", whilst ignoring the mugging they do. If it's the sort of thing that M$ staffers have time to worry about, they don't have enough work to do and (as demonstrated in this thread) just pours more scorn down on their heads.