A perspective on DRM

[Bambers]

How about you invest real money into making a real game without any DRM (no CD checks, no internet registration, freely transfer, etc.)? Then let's see how it ends up?

Well it will get copied and posted on various places on the internet in 1-2 days

As oppsed to copied, cracked and posted on various places on the internet in say 3-4 days, maybe a week if you were the first to use a new version of some DRM.

It's kinda like the finacial system 'bail-outs' you simply spend a chunk of money and only end up delaying the inevitable.

Of course, it does cause some headaches for those pirates such as when SP2 came out. Also Windows Vista is not very popular in China, probably due to the same reason. We also reduced our sales in China because the piracy rate is just too high there.

eh? neither SP2 nor vista (inc sp1) have been any more usefully resilient than previous versions of windows.

It doesn't matter how good or not your DRM is, it won't take long for it to end up on the internet in an idiotproof form.

If someone managed to make an uncrackable drm it might be worth it, despite the annoyance of your customers but anything less is just a waste of cash for the developer imo.

 

[KimB]

Dunno about Vista, but I thought the Windows XP "Genuine Advantage" was probably rather helpful against people selling illegal copies of Windows without their customers' knowledge, as though it doesn't prevent the user from using XP, it does give them a little message saying that it's not a legal copy. If they actually paid for it, they might get upset.

 

[pcchen]

Well it will get copied and posted on various places on the internet in 1-2 days

As oppsed to copied, cracked and posted on various places on the internet in say 3-4 days, maybe a week if you were the first to use a new version of some DRM.

It's kinda like the finacial system 'bail-outs' you simply spend a chunk of money and only end up delaying the inevitable.

This has been addressed in previous posts. "Cracked" or "available on internet" does not necessarily mean it's easily accessible to everyone.

eh? neither SP2 nor vista (inc sp1) have been any more usefully resilient than previous versions of windows.

Probably not. But those popular pirated serial numbers for SP1 do not work for SP2 at all. Therefore, many users of pirated Windows XP SP1 can't upgrade to SP2 at all. It takes quite some time for them to be able to get pirated SP2 after its release.

And to my understanding Vista is still not very widespread in China, probably not just because "everyone hates Vista."

 

[vazel]

It was a pain to get updates for Windows with a pirated version. If it did work it would work for a few months then break. There was an offline update package app that was featured at Neowin I think but that was shut down by Microsoft. Then some of them would have logos like Dell which really bugged me. And some of them would come with these pre-installed apps that the uploader would include. I hate Microsoft but those factors forced me to actually buy a copy.

 

[KimB]

This has been addressed in previous posts. "Cracked" or "available on internet" does not necessarily mean it's easily accessible to everyone.

Typically the cracks are no more difficult to obtain than the illegal copies.

Probably not. But those popular pirated serial numbers for SP1 do not work for SP2 at all. Therefore, many users of pirated Windows XP SP1 can't upgrade to SP2 at all. It takes quite some time for them to be able to get pirated SP2 after its release.

True, and this will be an obstacle for the less sophisticated users. The more sophisticated users will just make use of keygens and a bit of patience. Or just re-download the version bundled with SP2.

And to my understanding Vista is still not very widespread in China, probably not just because "everyone hates Vista."

I haven't seen any reason yet to believe that Vista is any more difficult to pirate than XP.

 

[Davros]

Isnt the low usage of vista in china due to the u.s embargo of x86 cpu's
thats why they develped their own chip the Godson-2E

 

[pcchen]

Typically the cracks are no more difficult to obtain than the illegal copies.

Yes, but they are probably not as easy to use. I don't know about current situation, but I've seen some cracks for some games which need a program to run in background and do some strange settings.

True, and this will be an obstacle for the less sophisticated users. The more sophisticated users will just make use of keygens and a bit of patience. Or just re-download the version bundled with SP2.

Of course, but it may require re-installation or something similar which is quite annoying.

Isnt the low usage of vista in china due to the u.s embargo of x86 cpu's
thats why they develped their own chip the Godson-2E

I don't know about the embargo. Do you have some additional information about it?
The Godson CPU is a MIPS CPU IIRC.

 

[Davros]

No sorry It ws just a little news snipped in a magazine about the cpu's release, it said it was developed in response to the usa's embargo of high performanxe x86 cpu's

 

[Gabrobot]

Yes, but they are probably not as easy to use. I don't know about current situation, but I've seen some cracks for some games which need a program to run in background and do some strange settings.

The only games that needed that to my knowledge were StarForce protected games. Games nowadays are easily cracked simply by replacing the game .exe and perhaps another file with the cracked one(s). Basically all the resources used to develop and implement DRM serve only to delay the inevitable release of a convenient package of game+crack on the pirate bay where everyone can download it. Given this situation, I find it mind boggling that a sane business man could still choose to waste money on DRM.

 

[Richard]

Basically all the resources used to develop and implement DRM serve only to delay the inevitable release of a convenient package of game+crack on the pirate bay where everyone can download it. Given this situation, I find it mind boggling that a sane business man could still choose to waste money on DRM.

Because DRM*'s main goal isn't to prevent piracy, not for a while at any rate. EA themselves admited that a pirated copy does not equal a lost sale and that even *gasp* some pirated copies have generated sales. She didn't even make the argument that DRM was reducing piracy. So they know that no matter how much draconian the DRM is, it will always be cracked.

What draconian DRM is doing is two things: first they are slowly, but surely, trying to clamp down on used-sales which are real dollars going into someone else's pockets. Draconian DRM helps in this because once you have to activate your copy, it's a small step to lock down that activation to some sort of discrete, identifyable "thing" like with limited installs, a user account, or even a small number of PCs. This is why changing some hardware components triggers an activation - it could be a the new owner's PC.

Secondly, by moving to online activation and user accounts it makes things easier to deploy a business model based on DLC that not only further prevents used-game sales (see GoW2's single-use online code) but also increases their revenue stream. Xbox players are much more likely to purchase stuff from the marketplace/DLC because there's a whole system in place that facilitates this (Xbox Live). On PC there's nothing quite like it. Steam, GameTap and D2D copy some of this but 1) they cost extra for publishers to use so they might as well roll out their own and 2) except for maybe Steam you don't have an emotional connection to your game account where you have achievements and then you have your list of games you can brag about. You don't just own games, your whole online gaming persona IS your games collection.

Now, publishers would still love to see all illegal P2P sites burn and someone could argue that DRM reduces casual piracy (though there's a whole new argument right there) but I'm positive the major publishers are under no illusions WRT DRM stopping piracy.

* By DRM I mean the more recent limited installs/online activation/etc.

 

[pcchen]

Secondly, by moving to online activation and user accounts it makes things easier to deploy a business model based on DLC that not only further prevents used-game sales (see GoW2's single-use online code) but also increases their revenue stream.

I'm not quite sure about this. For example, EA (at least in Taiwan) will give you a new activation code for Spore if you can show them a proper proof of purchase and an image of your old serial number. These can be easily transferred in a used-game sale.

 

[Richard]

I'm not quite sure about this. For example, EA (at least in Taiwan) will give you a new activation code for Spore if you can show them a proper proof of purchase and an image of your old serial number. These can be easily transferred in a used-game sale.

There are various examples this like. With Steam you can also buy a new CS key for 10 bucks even though, over here at least, a boxed copy of CS Anthology is 20 euros. Right now the experience is disjointed because all the publishers are doing their own thing but once there is a convergence of efforts (with Steam or maybe the upcoming G4WLive Marketplace) this will become much more streamlined - our games experience and their business model.

 

[Mintmaster]

Well, I think DRM-free is perfectly workable. The answer is simply for companies to tailor their products for the people that actually buy the products.

Stardock really has the right take on this: piracy doesn't matter. People that pirate products are completely irrelevant to the market. They place no strain whatsoever on companies' bottom lines (except, of course for those that buy/sell pirated products: but there the law needs to step in). But neither do they have any say in what products are produced. If the companies making these products merely pay no attention to the pirates, and just pay attention to the people that pay for their stuff, then the market will solve the problem on its own.

While I agree with him about studios that blame their low sales on piracy, I don't agree that you can just ignore piracy. You need some enforcement to illustrate that piracy is wrong, or else it will simply become acceptable not to buy games and the industry will die.

For example, think about a poor student. He thinks that gaming is not a priority he can spend money on, so he pirates. But will a few $50 games really affect his student debt in any way? Eventually you go down a slippery slope where everyone thinks that paying for games is not a priority. If you ignore the moral/fairness aspects, then the only logical reason not to pirate is the time it takes. Voluntary payments only go so far in today's society, and experiments with voluntary pay only work today because we have to pay for most games/music so we appreciate the effort.

Keeping piracy as something that's frowned up is not about sales for any given title, but about sustaining the long term future of various industries.

Of course, for anyone who thinksmusic, gaming, etc. aren't industries worth keeping, then my point is moot...

 

[KimB]

Perhaps. But publishers should focus, first and foremost, on ensuring that their anti-piracy measures do not punish users, and most especially do not make it more convenient to pirate.

 

[pascal]

The alternative is very easy, just leave DRM out. Duh.

Agree 100%
Imagine you edit a disc for a child party, you are a criminal !!!

I want audio cassete tape back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_audio_cassette

 

[Bambers]

For example, think about a poor student. He thinks that gaming is not a priority he can spend money on, so he pirates. But will a few $50 games really affect his student debt in any way? Eventually you go down a slippery slope where everyone thinks that paying for games is not a priority. If you ignore the moral/fairness aspects, then the only logical reason not to pirate is the time it takes. Voluntary payments only go so far in today's society, and experiments with voluntary pay only work today because we have to pay for most games/music so we appreciate the effort.

That seems unlikely. There's plenty of ex students even now who now pay for such things who didn't before and I hardly think putting DRM on something is going to significantly alter the population's moral balance. Those who think it's wrong don't need DRM to tell them that and those who don't (probably due to bad parenting), aren't likely going to change their mind due to something 'the authorities' tell them.

 

[Frank]

Bethesda complains about 'pirated' customer services

Bethesda Softworks, in the form of product manager Pete Hines, has joined in the mass of developers trying to put the boot into the PC games industry.

Speaking to MTV Multiplayer, Hines said his studio spent half of its customer support time dealing with people who had pirated copies of the game.

So, how do they know?

In my personal experience, most of the times I had some technical issue with a game I bought the last five years or so, I was treated like a criminal.

I guess it's one way to dismiss that there might actually be bugs with your software...

 

[pcchen]

So, how do they know?

In my personal experience, most of the times I had some technical issue with a game I bought the last five years or so, I was treated like a criminal.

I guess it's one way to dismiss that there might actually be bugs with your software...

Why don't you think it's the pirates' fault that the customer services have to treat their customers like criminals?

This is just like the anti-theft devices in those retail stores. If there's no thieves, there is no need for them to install those devices.

 

[KimB]

Unless they have good data to show that they're losing a significant portion of the profits from the sales of the game through customer service to pirates, they have no cause whatsoever to treat all persons seeking customer service as criminals.

Personally I seriously seriously doubt that customer support is even a blip on the radar for video games. It makes more sense for OS's and professional applications, but there they often have service contracts anyway, and it's therefore a mute point.

 

[_xxx_]

Why don't you think it's the pirates' fault that the customer services have to treat their customers like criminals?

This is just like the anti-theft devices in those retail stores. If there's no thieves, there is no need for them to install those devices.

Yeah, except that those devices go off only when you actually try to steal something and not the moment you enter the store.