A missing element in Next-Gen games.

J

jXales

Newcomer
I was just looking at screens from Crysis vs Reality on this video:
http://gameplanets.blogspot.com/2007...omparison.html

And there is NO denying that crysis is a stallion of next gen sublimity.
However in all the tech demo's and ingame video's i've seen of this game and any other game for that matter.
I've never seen WIND?

Crysis has Waves but wind is a major factor in creating waves and a realistic environment.

When looking at ingame video's the background trees and plants are all just sitting there.

In crysis the plants move according to your body hitting it.
With the euphoria physics engine coming making objects move realistically to different kinds of blows and physical interaction would it not be possible for a dev to make a see through physcal blow coming from the east that effects the landscape?
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=43855

Making tree's sway, bushes brussle making the whole ambient sceen actually interactive without having to do anything.

When you look outside a window, you see trees moving, birds flying around... you always see movement. Infact on a summer day when the winds are low and you look at a field or something and there is no wind, no people in the background there's probably bee's flying around or something. There's hardly ever a moment where NOTHING is moving which gives a more feel of realism.

ofcourse i can't expect them to program insects but how hard is it really to program wind in a game?
 
jXales said:
And there is NO denying that crysis is a stallion of next gen sublimity.
However in all the tech demo's and ingame video's i've seen of this game and any other game for that matter.
I've never seen WIND?
Click to expand...
Wind is apparent in Oblivion IIRC. However, that's not doable with physical trees (that respond to collisions) because the physical interactions would be too extreme and way beyond hardware's ability to calculate. That said, they could have wind just animating the trees without regard for collision, and switch to a different model when the tree is being impacted.

Wind is actually an interesting point, as it's rare (at least in the UK!) for everything to be absolutely still. Insects will be easier to do as just buzzing entities. You won't have to model them too accurately to get the right impression. Some games have birds in them, and some have nice weather effects (R:FoM snow) that suggest wind. But yeah, nature is very filtered out when creating games.
 
Well have you seen the Nuclear explosion tech demo in Crysis?
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=53584

Basically one could have a similar effect but of a far less powerful magnitude and it will have the same effect.

instead of blowing down houses, blowing branches in a direction.

Yes it will be incredibly performance consuming, but is it not technically possible.

And i'd agree having trees in animation regardless of collision would be a smart thing to do. Would definately decrease the need to process and calculate a whole lot.

But i was thinking in the bigger picture, not only trees. On streets in a game have some rubble blowing away. Pieces of paper on the ground, a coke can.

You know what i mean. It's not just the tree's :) It's the element and how much more realistic it would make things.
 
jXales said:
Yes it will be incredibly performance consuming, but is it not technically possible.
Click to expand...
Technically possible at 2 frames per second? Sure ;) Feasible in a game situation is what's needed. Complex models add a lot of physics.

But i was thinking in the bigger picture, not only trees. On streets in a game have some rubble blowing away. Pieces of paper on the ground, a coke can.

You know what i mean. It's not just the tree's :) It's the element and how much more realistic it would make things.
Click to expand...
It would make things a lot more realistic, but it is also very hard to do. Consider your coke can - you'd need to have it able to collide with every object in the scene to be realistic. A plastic carrier-bag would be a great thing to have flying around, but it'd need complex cloth dynamics to look realistic. Then have the bag land on the coke-can...already you've got some complex physics going on. Add a reasonable amount of rubble, and the physics has skyrocketed.

We don't know how far this gen can take physics, but at the moment we're only just getting destructible environments on a gameplay-changing scale. I'm sure no gamer wants to sacrifice the possibility of driving a tank through a building in order to have a crisp-packet and carrier-bag flaot around on a breeze!
 
Actually I have just been looking over some of the vids and Crysis does have a wind effect on the trees and foliage similar to that in Oblivion. I don't think its actually unified and part of the collision detection systems, i.e. everything isn't blowing in the same direction, its just swaying, but everything definatly isn't static.

I agree how amazing it would be to have strong gales in stormy weather blowing all the foliage in one direction though. That would be mind blowing!
 
yeah i read it was supposed to have twisters tornado's and other heavy weather effects.
Haven't seen any tech demo's though :S
 
Definately realistic ,dynamic and unpredictable weather would be nice. Especially for racing games like Motorstorm.
 
However in all the tech demo's and ingame video's i've seen of this game and any other game for that matter.
Click to expand...
i made a tech demo that done wind a while ago on trees + grass, if youre truly interested ill dig up a link

in the meantime heres something ive just uploaded, captain courgette (gone over to first person, though may change to a pseudo-3rd person later)
theres no wind (+ i assume fire) in space (exhasts contain there own oxygen i assume) dont know about smoke ( i assume so, though its behaviour would be different ), then again realism aint something im aiming for

http://www.filefactory.com/file/4ec0f7/
 
Have you played Resistance Fall of Man? While the fighting is going on, there is debris and such flying/floating around...that looks real in its movements...not just some static leaf dropping straight to the ground....makes the world some what believeable...helps pull you into the game.

Also there is a level later in the game that features the most realistic falling snow Ive seen in a game.....heres a vid.

http://www.gameklip.net/v/1928/
 
True, realistic, physics involving wind would be nearly impossible to do. Take oblivion for example: There are hundreds of objects in the forests visable to the player at any one time. The physics are there if you want to fire an arrow into a tree or rock or push a log or whatever but those are all point based interactions. The physics of the arrow are only being calculated at the point where the arrow strikes the tree for that one single tree. Wind, OTOH, would require a physics force calculation for EVERY point on the tree, and on the rock, and on the dead body, and on the grass, and so forth. That number of calculations simply can't be done on current hardware in realtime.
 
Ragnarok said:
True, realistic, physics involving wind would be nearly impossible to do. Take oblivion for example: There are hundreds of objects in the forests visable to the player at any one time. The physics are there if you want to fire an arrow into a tree or rock or push a log or whatever but those are all point based interactions. The physics of the arrow are only being calculated at the point where the arrow strikes the tree for that one single tree. Wind, OTOH, would require a physics force calculation for EVERY point on the tree, and on the rock, and on the dead body, and on the grass, and so forth. That number of calculations simply can't be done on current hardware in realtime.
Click to expand...
true whilst having a perfect wind simulations is impossible ( prolly cause you'ld have to go down to the molecular level ) having some pseudo method where forces get applyed to the skeletons joints is achievable. ive had 100,000joints up+running on a pc (ok this leaves no power left over for the game :D) but on the cell i envisage u could easily ramp that up to a million ( basically more than any game yet created) and the game would be uneffected. *this* is the sort of thing the cell would lap up, in a couple of years time expect to see ps3 games where the trees/grass are amazing to watch
 
Live for speed has wind, and has for ages.

Wind is something that is really dependant on the game, for example, this is car racing. Wind certainly has an effect on the cars, and is a nice addition. (it also acts on smoke, dust and flags around the courses).

Wind in a game like halo, really wouldn't be all the great I don't think. It would take up cycles just for an effect that really doesn't add anything to that form of gameplay.

So, I believe that wind is perfectly doable on PC, 360, PS3 and the wii. However, its pointless is a lot of games, with a few air based games excepted (golf, racing, air combat). We have examples of wind being done effectively and convincingly in games that are out now.
 
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