3DMark ShmeeDMark

[koneill]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: 3DMark should not be treated like a 3D benchmark gift from heaven; it's not. It's actually a pretty horrible benchmark, even as a system-wide measure of performance.

Anyhow, on with my point. I ran the UT2K3 benchmark (included with the leaked demo) on both a Radeon 8500 128MB and a Visiontek GeForce3 (vanilla - no Ti 500). From what I've seen of all the 3DMark 2001 SE benchmarks, I would think that the Radeon would be at least somewhat faster than a GeForce, if not a GeForce3 Ti 500 with a "measily" 64MB. Here are my results:

GF4 Ti 4200 @ 250/444 w/no FSAA 116.2 fps
GF4 Ti 4200 @ 250/444 w/QC FSAA 88.5 fps
GF4 Ti 4200 @ 300/560 w/no FSAA 126.2 fps
GF4 Ti 4200 @ 300/560 w/QC FSAA 105.1 fps

GF3 @ 200/460 w/no FSAA 104.7 fps
GF3 @ 200/460 w/QC FSAA 55.2 fps
GF3 @ 215/515 W/no FSAA 113.0 fps
GF3 @ 215/515 w/QC FSAA 60.8 fps

R200 128MB @ 275/275 w/no FSAA 91.8 fps
R200 128MB @ 275/275 w/3x FSAA (perf.) 45.9 fps

Pretty startling: a "vanilla" GeForce3 has over 10 fps on a 128MB Radeon 8500 - the "superior" DX8.1 GPU. I also thought that with the 128MB perhaps the GeForce3 would lose out, but that's not the case. The benchmark was run with all texture details set to "UltraHigh" (in the preferences "console" and at 1024x768x32. NVIDIA drivers used: 29.42. ATI drivers used: Catalyst.

System:

ASUS A7N266-C
AMD Athlon XP 2000+ @ 2115
512MB Samsung PC2100
80GB WD Caviar "SE"
Philips Siesmic Edge 5.1
3Com 100Mb NIC
Windows XP Pro

Note that this is NOT a flame directed at ATI or ATI users. To the contrary; I think ATI's been kicking *ss; nonetheless, I think this is an excellent example of real world benchmarks vs. synthetic benchmarks and how the results of one, having as little real meaning as it does, can disillusion so many.

 

[Doomtrooper]

That is not a finished game as this is exactly why leaked demos should NOT be used as benchmark..wait until the final game is here..

http://www.ina-community.com/forums...a69ae7fee98a889bc48cb3d01&threadid=180009

A leaked early test version of UT2003 is floating around the internet. It is not representative of the quality or performance of the final game

One of the most graphically demanding games on the market now is Medal of Honor: Armored Assault...since that game is finished try comparing those

 

[Pete]

While you're at it, try MoH: Allied Assault as well.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Allied Assault Even...I always called it MOHAA

 

[Typedef Enum]

While I agree with the notion that one should wait for a finished product to make any sort of conclusion, comparing a game like UT2k3 to MOH is not very solid, IMHO...

Quake3-engine games weren't designed in/around DX8-level hardware. I do realize that UT2k3 isn't a game requiring such hardware, but it's obviously designed around DX8. Furthermore, I'm not even sure that any of those games will end up approaching the complexity of UT2k3 (measured in polygons)...though I cannot say that with 100% certainty. I'm just basing that off the comment of "upwards of 100x the number of polygons in Unreal Tournament."

At any rate, we'll see how it all pans out when they release the public beta.

 

[Fred]

/ rant mode on

I wonder what will happen if the situation stays the same. Will the Anti Nvidia camps claim that yet another game has been selectively optimized to suit Nv's schemes.

Or wait. Maybe Nvidia is pulling a driver trick to tamper with the unreleased demo.

More to the point. This board is rampant with conspiracy theories about many cards (including Nvda, bitboys, Kyro, et al) and its getting annoying.

Logic dictates that the simplest answer is more often than nought, the correct one. If you want to beat Occam's razor, it does not suffice to supply cursory or small amounts of evidence.

Example: "Bitboys is never going to come out with a new card". Yet, investors have been channeling money into there company for quite some time now. So the argument would also imply that the investors didn't do their research, and were throwing millions of dollars into a junk company. Which is more easy to believe? That perhaps, the investors did do there research, and that you were mistakenly assuming that a certain historical trend would continue.. Or that a vapor IP was curiously spending a huge amount of personal time, attracting millions of dollars from simpletons on promises backed up by no evidence.

 

[Doomtrooper]

 

[Pete]

Worst. Rant. Ever.

C'mon, most people agree that it's the drivers, as well as the low-level hardware tweaks, that make the GF series faster than equivalent ATi cards. At this point, ATi has shown they have competitive hardware, so if new games aren't being optimized for their cards, ATi has no one to blame but themselves.

You totally lost me with that investor story. Don't you know the stock market is the biggest, most legal form of gambling there is? There's a sucker born every minute, and don't think rich suckers are impervious to capitalism's guiles.

I don't need Occam's Mach 3 Turbo to tell me that, even if it is less irritating against the grain.



Great smiley, Doom.

P.S. - "More often than not."

 

[Fred]

"C'mon, most people agree that it's the drivers, as well as the low-level hardware tweaks, that make the GF series faster than equivalent ATi cards"

You don't think it might be a little more complicated than that? Heh.

The anti Bitboy campaign was just one example amidst many, that has irked me in the past. Show me 'good' and 'ample' evidence that they aren't exactly what they say they are. In the meantime, sanity leans in the other direction

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Show me 'good' and 'ample' evidence that they aren't exactly what they say they are

Ummm..what exactly do they say they are? And what has that got to do with their ABILITY to ship a product?

To be clear: I disagree with any notion that BitBoys is purposely "scamming" anyone. However, you said that you took issue with anyone who said that BitBoys would not ship a card. That is different. I believe BitBoys is legit and has the best intentions, but this doesn't mean that I have much of any confidence that they can or will ever ship a competitive product.

 

[Fred]

Different argument Joe =) I have no doubt they have the resources to actually make gfx cards. Whether they can fab the right quantities at a competitive price, and have the resources to actually pull off a mass production is a different story altogether, one which I remain quiet about (since I know nothing of the specifics). Wise man says 'I don't know'.

I just hate conspiracy theories. Invariably they are wrong, or confused. And they are passed off as fact more often than nought. Not to mention, impossible to disprove (since you can't disprove the negative).

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Well, I'll just say this:

"Conspiracy theories" are the consumer's way of "getting back" at Corporations for burdening us with PR departments that make us roll our eyes every time they speak.

 

[Althornin]

Note that this is NOT a flame directed at ATI or ATI users. To the contrary; I think ATI's been kicking *ss; nonetheless, I think this is an excellent example of real world benchmarks vs. synthetic benchmarks and how the results of one, having as little real meaning as it does, can disillusion so many.

Game is not finished, not optimized, etc.
Many possible explainations, including:
1) Game was written on nVidia hardware, and still needs optomizing for ATI's stuff
2) Unfinished game doesnt make use of all of its effects, therefore comparison is retarded
3) nvidias card might be faster in this game.

However, given the total uncompleted state of the game, and the begging and pleading by the devs fo the game to NOT leak the "demo" and use if for exactly what you did, i'd say that 2) is the most likely.
Wait till the game is FINISHED before you benchmark with it

 

[Nappe1]

(*In the scene, Nappe1 is standing in center, others in left or right side.*)
*Nappe1 takes a look to left side and sees anti-nVidia group.
*Nappe1 takes a look to right side and sees anti-ATi group.
*Nappe1 takes a small flag from his pocket with a small silver 'B' on it, start waving it like a mad and yells to both sides: "THEY WILL DELIVER!!!!11"



hey come on, those are just gfx cards.

 

[psurge]

Nappe1, good thing it's only a war on the net . Fans in general (but especially english football fans) can get really scary.

 

[Sharkfood]

If these benchmarks were taken on an earlier build of the demo, the scores would have been reversed.. that is the argument.

"Scores" also dont detail the runs by any stretch of the imagination. It's anyone's guess how comparable they are from what effects are enabled/working, what the IQ is and whatnot. Without close scrutiny of the output result, scores are meaningless.

Lastly, are there any splash screens between scenes in this demo?

 

[Randell]

true Shark, I dont know how you compare 3xPerformance FSAA to Quincunx for example.

Koneill,

Just for interest can you run Quincunx with some aniso say 4x and alos just 2x performance & quaAA on the 8500?

I think most people will probably play this game with aniso only or 2xAA on the 8500 and maybe 2xRGMS and 4xAniso on the Gf3/Gf4.

Actually I would quite like to see how 4xS performs & looks as well

 

[Randell]

Nappe1, good thing it's only a war on the net . Fans in general (but especially english football fans) can get really scary.

at least we are welcome in the host nations this time and therefore have been well behaved (fingers crossed it continues)

treat people like animals and they behave like animals.

I suppose it couls also be the cost of getting there means say only a better class of fan has gone, but I doubt that's totally true.

 

[Mariner]

The main difference is that the brainless scumbags who normally go to "support" England haven't been able to get into Japan.

The real England fans who have gone are enjoying themselves and the football as they should and don't feel any need to start fights or cause trouble with others at the tournament.

Quite a refreshing change, actually. In my home town, there were around 25 people arrested for causing trouble in the streets after the Sweden game. These are the toerags who would normally have gone abroad to cause trouble overseas. When they can't do that, they are quite happy to fight with other English people who are supporting the same team!!

 

[jb]

That UT2003 demo is from an old build with plently of bugs in it. Not worth your time. Trust me, the real thing is much better and closer than you think