3D Gaming*

[Sigfried1977]

Having almost finished Dragon Age Origins with Nvidia 3d Vision (plus other games here and there), I have to say 3d is definitely more than just a gimmick. It's fucking incredible actually and going back to my flat TV+Console-setup feels like a serious downgrade now.

It's not quite perfect yet (most likely thanks to the slow LCD tech), but it's so much more immersive that I'm absolutly willing to live with a few problems here and there.


Very impressive battery life by the way. I had to charge the glasses once after 50+ hours so far.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I'm experienced with parallel and cross-eyed 3D and the effect of tilting your head while viewing isn't really comparable. Keeping both of your eyes tracking on the individual images would be difficult enough to start with.

The underlying science is the same regardless of viewing method. To remove tracking from he equasion forget tilting your head while viewing, just tilt your head to begin with, u'll notice the more tilt the harder it gets to zone in until at it becomes impossible.

In games this could be overcome by using headtracking but it wouldnt be possible for movies. Not that its a big problem, just have to not tilt your head too much.

 

[patsu]

HDMI Specification Version 1.4a Released

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4246

As already reported (see blu-ray.com, February 5), an extraction of the 3D portion of Specification Version 1.4a is available for public download on the HDMI Web site at the official HDMI site.

The latest HDMI Specification adds key enhancements to support the market requirements for bringing broadcast 3D content into the home:

1. The addition of Top-and-Bottom to the Specification.
2. The addition of two mandatory formats for broadcast content:
a. Side-by-Side Horizontal
b. Top-and-Bottom

With the addition of these two mandatory formats, the HDMI Specification Version 1.4a provides a level of interoperability for devices designed to deliver 3D content over the HDMI connection.

3D Mandatory Formats

* For movie content: Frame Packing, 1080p at 23.98/24Hz
* For game content: Frame Packing, 720p at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
* For broadcast content:
-- Side-by-Side Horizontal: 1080i at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
-- Top-and-Bottom:
---- 720p at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
---- 1080p at 23.97/24Hz

Implementing the mandatory formats of the HDMI Specification facilitates interoperability among devices, allowing devices to speak a common 3D language when transmitting and receiving 3D content. The mandatory requirements for devices implementing 3D formats are:

* Displays – must support all mandatory formats.
* Sources – must support at least one mandatory format.
* Repeaters - must be able to pass through all mandatory formats.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Cool, so now side by side 720p is mandatory (which is what sony said PS3 would use) any 1.4a tv will be guaranteed to work with PS3. Guess ill keep an eye out for a 1.4a DLP projector now then!

 

[Quaz51]

Cool, so now side by side 720p is mandatory (which is what sony said PS3 would use) any 1.4a tv will be guaranteed to work with PS3. Guess ill keep an eye out for a 1.4a DLP projector now then!

side by side 720p isn't mandatory (just 1080i)
but i have no doubt that 3D TV will suport all HDMI 1.4 3D mode, it's not really difficult

 

[ShadowRunner]

side by side 720p isn't mandatory (just 1080i)
but i have no doubt that 3D TV will suport all HDMI 1.4 3D mode, it's not really difficult

I need to learn to read! lol. Top and bottom @ 720p is mandatory though so could be what PS3 will be using, or frame packing @ 720p, i remember them saying they have 2x 720p images per frame but just assumed it was side by side rather than top and bottom or frame packing. I always understood frame packing to be essentially the same as side-by-side/top and bottom but with some control data to say how the frame is split, is this correct? the info Patsu quoted specifically mentions frame packing @ 720p for game content, could be an indication of sonys preffered ps3 output format.

3D Mandatory Formats

* For movie content: Frame Packing, 1080p at 23.98/24Hz
* For game content: Frame Packing, 720p at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
* For broadcast content:
-- Side-by-Side Horizontal: 1080i at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
-- Top-and-Bottom:
---- 720p at 50 or 59.94/60Hz
---- 1080p at 23.97/24Hz

 

[Quaz51]

frame packing is like a top/bottom format but with 2205 line (for 1080p mode) instead 2160 (2x1080)
there is an extra 45 line at the middle of the frame that are ignored. this 45 line simulate a vertical blank and keep synchro between data flow and 120hz page flipping 3D display.
it's like a 120hz video mode but the Vsync is 60hz

 

[DmitryKo]

but i have no doubt that 3D TV will suport all HDMI 1.4 3D mode, it's not really difficult

Samsung C7000 series platform does not seem to support anything but the mandatory HDMI 1.4 stereo 3D formats (not 1.4a), and it does not support full-resolution 1080p60 stereo 3D even with manual 3D mode which only supports half resolution formats such as side-by-side, top-bottom, line interleaved, column interleaved, and checkerboard (these modes work at 720p60, 1080i60 (yikes) and 1080p24/30/60 for the built-in video player, and probably most of PC VESA modes and CEA-861 modes for the HDMI ports).

So at least Samsung sets will be limited to 720p60 stereo 3D and will upscale it to full 1080p, instead of directly supporting 1080p60 stereo. It's not an issue of theoretical bandwidth, single-link HDMI 1.3/1.4 has enough bandwidth for 1080p60 stereo 3D, at least on paper. It's just that HDMI LLC, Silicon Image and major TV makers wastly underestimate (or even downplay) PC stereo gaming. Even the latest HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 chips from Silicon Image do not support full 340 MHz pixel clock, only 230 MHz at most (which is only enough for 1080p60 at 36 bit Deep color).

Hopefully that would change that when DisplayPort starts appearing in TV sets, because it fully supports frame sequential 1080p stereo in current v1.1, and v.1.2 supports a handful of full-resolution formats, uncluding up to 2560x1600 at 60 Hz per eye, or 1920x1080 at 120 Hz per eye.

 

[patsu]

Sony 3D glasses pricing, photo and availability:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/03/...ve-shutter-3d-tv-glasses-and-emitter-pricing/

At long last, we are finally starting to get an official indication from Sony as to how much their active shutter 3D glasses and emitter will cost. Those of you planning to buy a 3D capable 2010 BRAVIA TV have been very curious about 3D accessory pricing. Sony’s upcoming 3D capable BRAVIA TV’s for 2010 include the LX900, HX700, HX800, HX900 and NX900 series – however the LX900 is the only model that comes with the glasses (two, specifically) and emitter.

Available in June, the TDG-BR100 (above) and TDG-BR50 active shutter 3D glasses will be available to purchase in Japan for about Y12,000, which is roughly $133USD. The glasses’ width can be adjusted for those with larger faces or if you wear glasses. I was initially expecting these accessories to cost around $199, but if Sony can keep it around $125 or lower that would far better. Here are the TDG-BR50 glasses in blue and pink (no word if these are regionally exclusive colors):

Sony Japan also detailed how much the 3D infrared emitter (below) would cost that you will need to have for your active shutter 3D glasses – it will be about Y5,000, which is roughly $55USD. The BRAVIA LX900 series already has the emitter built-in.

Too expensive. Most people will wait for price to drop.

 

[ShadowRunner]

You dont buy Sony if you want cheap

This is a good indication of the upper price bracket, id expect most other companies to come in cheaper.

 

[Quaz51]

it's the same price for others

samsung shutterglass

150$

200$ (rechargeable battery)

 

[Sigfried1977]

Wow, and here I thought Nvidia's glasses were a rip-off. (similar price, but at least they come with an emitter). 4 of these will buy you a second tv.

 

[patsu]

They are doing the same hi-tech move again (Price high and then drop price as volume picks up).

At that price, I'd rather wait for these:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/gunnar-optiks-swank-and-stylish-3d-specs-get-the-hands-on-treat/

 

[ShadowRunner]

Those are polarised glasses i believe. Doubt we will be seeing any active shutter glasses like that any time soon.

 

[patsu]

3D Blu-rays and 3D TV are Go for Launch (Vendor pricing and schedule info):
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4271

Panasonic (in an exclusive alliance with Best Buy) and Samsung are first out of the gate, with displays and Blu-ray players available now. LG is launching in May, Sony in June (in Japan and then the US) and Vizio in August.

DisplaySearch expects 9 million 3D TVs to be sold globally in 2012, a drop in the bucket of TV sales, of about 200 million sets worldwide.

All Shrek Movies on 3D Blu-ray in 2010, Exclusive with Samsung (Update: for One Year)
Heh heh, 3D TV now have timed exclusive titles for vendors, like game consoles:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4268
[size=-2]What a mess ! Don't think it will change any big picture.[/size]

DreamWorks Animation announced yesterday the expansion of its strategic alliance with Samsung (see blu-ray.com, January 6), to feature an exclusive offering of the Shrek 3D film series in its entirety in 3D for the first time ever. This Blu-ray collection will be available during the second half of the year. The news was delivered at Samsung's Full HD 3D LED TV global launch press conference held in New York City.

...

In an interview with USA Today, Jeffrey Katzenberg confirmed that "you can't buy the Blu-ray 3D version of Monsters vs. Aliens or Shrek," and added: "They're exclusive to Samsung for a year."

Deluxe Launches Blu-ray 3D Services
I think it's the third service provider, right after Panasonic and Sony:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4270

Disc authoring company Deluxe Digital Studios Inc. announced today that it is launching a full range of 3D services for the home entertainment market. Its enhanced capabilities are specifically tailored to the 3D Blu-ray standard. Beginning in April, the studio will launch 3D Blu-ray production services with capacity ramping to four projects per month by the fourth quarter of 2010.

 

[patsu]

More "3D vision" game impressions. Hopefully they release some real stuff so that we can proceed to the tech discussions:
http://gizmodo.com/5493828/screw-avatar-3d-gaming-is-what-will-get-you-to-buy-a-new-tv

The graphics of Metro 2033 are very good, to be sure, but they're nothing better than any other major release from the past year. What made the experience great was the 3D. It was amazing how much was added to the feel of the game.

In short, 3D makes games feel more real than ever before. And this is just the beginning. With Natal, Microsoft will be able to do head tracking, which when combined with 3D really looks like the future of gaming to me. A next-gen Microsoft console with Natal and 3D built-in, complete with the guts to make 3D run smoothly, will completely change the way we play games.

EDIT:
Titantic 3D coming in 2012:
http://www.businessinsider.com/james-cameron-sailing-titanic-in-3d-by-2012-2010-3

 

[Danalys]

I don't like 3D conversions.it just muddies the water of people's perception of 3D. It's like colourising B/W films.They looked weird and gave a bad impression of colour. Also interferes with the original artistic vision that didn't take colour or 3D into account.

Amusing that that quote dreams of the next gen for Microsoft what will probably be done this gen by Sony.

 

[grandmaster]

Triple-screen Bad Company 2 with 3D Vision at GDC was fun! Just a shame about the borders/bezels on the screens getting in the way really.

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Studios_Working_On_Stereoscopic_PS3_Games.php

Sony has also said that it plans to update its PlayStation 3 with firmware that will enable 3D gaming. Ian Bickerstaff, senior engineer with Sony Computer Entertainment's UK-based stereoscopic 3D team, told Gamasutra during GDC that his company is "very optimistic" about 3D gaming on PS3, but "We're taking a cautious approach."

"I think [3D gaming uptake is] going to depend on the uptake of 3D televisions," he said. Sony is planning on releasing 3D-capable Bravia televisions this summer.

"We're not going to spend crazy, crazy amounts of money [on 3D games] expecting everyone tomorrow to have 3D TVs, clearly," said Bickerstaff. "But, we believe this is the future, and three or four years from now, you won't be able to buy a television that doesn't have a 3D capability."

Asked how many SCE studios are working on 3D PS3 games, Bickerstaff said, "It's all a bit confidential, but a lot, let's put it that way. We've been amazed by the enthusiasm from the developers."

He added, "To be honest, we have not had an internal project to throw at people to make their games in 3D, yet there are loads of games in 3D, like [MLB 10], Super Stardust HD, that looks fantastic, and so on. And that's really just because of the enthusiasm from the developers themselves."

 

[Karamazov]

too bad i can't see 3d