3D Gaming*

Arwin said:
Rather soon too ... If you have a the first one should be out next month already. Pretty soon eh? So if you have a 120hz 1080p TV ...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/blitz-convinced-the-future-is-3dtv

(Blitz also mentions that they licence their game engine and it's "like-for-like better than Unreal")
Click to expand...

3D has been the next big thing in visual entertainment since the '20s. I actually remember watching King Kong on TV in 3D around '84 at my grandma's house and her saying how when it debuted when she was young, the big story was that everything would be 3D before too long. And nobody would watch regular old pictures any more.

My grandma was born in 1917.
 
That comment was totally superfluous ... maybe read the accompanying interview? ;)

Eurogamer interview said:
urogamer: So the actual 3D technology, is it just producing that two-colour image...

Andrew Oliver: EURGH! Two-colour image! I want to hit you! No! It's not the red/blue glasses. Have you seen a 3D movie?

Eurogamer: No, not a new one.

Andrew Oliver: Oh! Old movies: crap. We're in a new, digital age. We invented computers a few years ago...

Eurogamer: Oh!

Andrew Oliver: The red and blue glasses were invented in 1922, and they were s*** then and they're even worse now. They give you headaches and they're awful and they destroy the colours. We are not talking about that.
Click to expand...
 
I'm guessing he is talking about the Samsung 120 Hz displays which can do 3D with NVIDIA cards at the moment, at a guess I'd say they simply pack 2 frames into 1 and send some proprietary auxiliary data to kick it into 3D mode.

HDMI 1.4 will standardize such a method.
 
While Kutarga was probably just talking crap when he said it I am sure all console can output at 120hz if your monitor supported it.

They are basically just standard PC parts and PC's have been able to output to whatever your monitor supports for years.
 
Speaking of 3D, I remember fiddling around with NV GF3 with 3D glasses that came with it. I never manage to see any 3D out of it. All I see is just double image even through the glasses. Anyone here actually have what I am talking about and managed to get it to work ?

Also I've been to those 3D cinemas and I never manage to see any 3D effect either. All I know about 3D effects are from the brochures they handed out. I never actually experience it for myself. So I am always curious about this 3D effects.
 
Do both of your eyes see? Is one of your eyes weak or your brain tends to concentrate much more on one eye?

I myself for example I was told by my optician that one eye is "lazy" and my focus concentrates too much on the left. As a result myperception of distance is reduced compared to other people. Also despite that both of my eyes see if I close my right I almost dont feel that one of my eyes has closed at all. I suspect that someone who has what I have at a larger degree might not be able to perceive 3D since his focus concentrates too much on one eye whereas in order to realize 3D both your eyes must give enough feedback to your brain of the double imagery seen through glasses.
 
I remember playing Q3A and others with that Wicked3D driver for 3dfx and polarized lenses. Very fun stuff.
 
MfA said:
I'm guessing he is talking about the Samsung 120 Hz displays which can do 3D with NVIDIA cards at the moment, at a guess I'd say they simply pack 2 frames into 1 and send some proprietary auxiliary data to kick it into 3D mode.

HDMI 1.4 will standardize such a method.
Click to expand...

Except neither console supports HDMI 1.4, so why put support for a feature in an XBLA or PSN game when neither the PS3 or 360 hardware can make use of it?

The problem is still there, neither console supports 120hz output, its a hardware issue as far as I'm aware.

Nvidia's solution uses dual link DVI iirc, no such option on a console.
 
I want two 16 M pixel images; produced from a 3D world by two point of views that are 10 cm apart, to be projected on to my retinas separately, at 300 Hz by mini projectors, which I don't carry on me.
 
Nesh said:
Do both of your eyes see? Is one of your eyes weak or your brain tends to concentrate much more on one eye?

I myself for example I was told by my optician that one eye is "lazy" and my focus concentrates too much on the left. As a result myperception of distance is reduced compared to other people. Also despite that both of my eyes see if I close my right I almost dont feel that one of my eyes has closed at all. I suspect that someone who has what I have at a larger degree might not be able to perceive 3D since his focus concentrates too much on one eye whereas in order to realize 3D both your eyes must give enough feedback to your brain of the double imagery seen through glasses.
Click to expand...

Amblyopia ?

I've been tested many times for that as kid and adult. But I was never diagnose with it.

But I do have mild astimagtism. Can that contribute ? I never actually corrected them, since to me they're mild, but my vision is not 20/20.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoblindness

PS. holograms should still provide convincing depth, but holographic displays are still a ways off.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I've got to ask my specialist when I go see him next time about this.

But yeah I wouldn't mind some holographic display. Like that TV Show Bones, is that sort of Holographic display possible or just sci-fi at the moment ?
 
A hologram is a window "through" which you see a 3D scene (it can appear in front of the window too). A realtime holographic display of that size might be possible now, Qinetiq has demonstrated a scalable system, but it would take an incredible amount of money.

The display in bones is more representative of a volumetric display, which generally either projects light in a diffuse medium or on a spinning surface. In theory such a display could be done much cheaper, but I don't know of any group who tried something that large. This is the state of the art in this respect.
 
brain_stew said:
Except neither console supports HDMI 1.4, so why put support for a feature in an XBLA or PSN game when neither the PS3 or 360 hardware can make use of it?

The problem is still there, neither console supports 120hz output, its a hardware issue as far as I'm aware.

Nvidia's solution uses dual link DVI iirc, no such option on a console.
Click to expand...

hdmi1.4 might not be needed if display devices are made a bit smarter. One way would be to output 1080p60 image made possible with hdmi1.3a. The contents would actually be two separate interlaced images(i.e. odd lines left eye, even lines right eye). Display device then has capability to show two separate 1080p30 images and show same image 4 times hence having 120Hz. Ofcourse the real fps is then dropped to 30 but hey, it's 3d and new hdmi is not needed, just a display that is smart enough. There has been talks of other tricks with hdmi to get 2 separate images.

Even the superduper movietheater 3d uses 24Hz source and show 3* same image for both eyes hence having 3*24Hz*2 = 144Hz output.
 
phenix said:
I want two 16 M pixel images; produced from a 3D world by two point of views that are 10 cm apart, to be projected on to my retinas separately, at 300 Hz by mini projectors, which I don't carry on me.
Click to expand...

Here's a 19th century device that displays very high res but still images on your retina :D
http://www.gothicroseantiques.com/19thCenturyStereoOpticViewer.html

the light source is external, and the 3D world is extremely well rendered, with an über massive amount of photon mapping.

I believe it can seriously fit the res requirement. I remember seeing a few 6x6cm photographs and they were extremely detailed. I wonder if tech such as electronic ink can get to such a big resolution some day.

regarding refresh rates in a real display, sterescopic or not, I can settle on 120Hz (real, not 60Hz per eye) :)
 
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brain_stew said:
Except neither console supports HDMI 1.4, so why put support for a feature in an XBLA or PSN game when neither the PS3 or 360 hardware can make use of it?
Click to expand...

And there aren't any products out there that have 1.4 ports to begin with. We may see them as early as next year.

I'm just wondering how many versions of the standard they're going to release. 1.3 isn't even being used fully currently by anyone, and the PS3 has a rather stripped version of it (you can't bitstream lossless codecs, so you have to rely on the system's internal decoder).
 
SG79 said:
And there aren't any products out there that have 1.4 ports to begin with. We may see them as early as next year.

I'm just wondering how many versions of the standard they're going to release. 1.3 isn't even being used fully currently by anyone, and the PS3 has a rather stripped version of it (you can't bitstream lossless codecs, so you have to rely on the system's internal decoder).
Click to expand...

Add to that the X360 only uses HDMI 1.2 I believe? Not to mention that it appears that half of X360 owners (at least ones that played Gears) are still using SD television sets. And that any game would still need to support component, composite and svideo outputs.

Regards,
SB
 
manux said:
hdmi1.4 might not be needed if display devices are made a bit smarter. One way would be to output 1080p60 image made possible with hdmi1.3a. The contents would actually be two separate interlaced images(i.e. odd lines left eye, even lines right eye). Display device then has capability to show two separate 1080p30 images and show same image 4 times hence having 120Hz. Ofcourse the real fps is then dropped to 30 but hey, it's 3d and new hdmi is not needed, just a display that is smart enough. There has been talks of other tricks with hdmi to get 2 separate images.

Even the superduper movietheater 3d uses 24Hz source and show 3* same image for both eyes hence having 3*24Hz*2 = 144Hz output.
Click to expand...

So we'd be looking at a solution that isn't compatible with current "3D ready" TVs, and is restriced to 30fps? Its cool that its possible but very far from ideal, the market of consumers with 3D TVs is already small enough restricting yourself to a theorised future technology to possibly be included in new TVs seems far from ideal.

We've got a standard for stereo 3D now and its working and in the marketplace already with ever increasing support. Its my belief that working to the current standard is the best way to get this off the ground, not introducing new standards to poorly retrofit the technology to todays consoles.

Leave it to PCs for now and let consoles jump in with the next hardware wave, that' how I see it working out.
 
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