1080p HDR image better than 4k non HDR ?

[Recop]

1080p at the same screen size will have visible pixels. These will be 'softened' on the 4k set but even if bi-linearly filtered, it'll look no worse, and in reality you'll have a decent upscale algorithm filling in the missing data with something reasonable.

According to DF, 1080p upscaled to 4K constantly looks worse than non upscaled 1080p on a 1080p display.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-samsung-ku6400-4k-tv-review : "4K content looks stunning on the KU6400, but when it comes to 1080p and lower resolutions it's worth pointing out that 4K screens in general deliver a softer presentation than a native 1080p display, with more artefacts when viewing at fairly close distances, and the KU640 is no exception. Full HD material still looks excellent on the 40-inch KU6400 screen, mind, with 1-1 pixel details perfectly preserved across test patterns and in Blu-ray movies.

You do lose the pixel-perfect sharpness of a 1080p display, though, which is to be expected, but the upscaling is at least reasonably clean, with very slight soft-focused jaggies only becoming visible when sitting very close to the screen. As such, 1080p games still hold up very well, even though they don't look as good as on a 1080p screen."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-panasonic-dx750-4k-hdr-ultra-hd-tv-review : "Upscaling is somewhat mixed with 4K displays, with lower resolutions appearing softer and less defined compared to native 1080p screens."

 

[I.S.T.]

The HDR pic just looks like somebody put that through the NTSC filter some emulators have at a lesser setting...
I suspect it's due to not having an HDR monitor myself.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

"4K content looks stunning on the KU6400, but when it comes to 1080p and lower resolutions it's worth pointing out that 4K screens in general deliver a softer presentation than a native 1080p display, with more artefacts when viewing at fairly close distances, and the KU640 is no exception. Full HD material still looks excellent on the 40-inch KU6400 screen, mind, with 1-1 pixel details perfectly preserved across test patterns and in Blu-ray movies.

You do lose the pixel-perfect sharpness of a 1080p display, though, which is to be expected, but the upscaling is at least reasonably clean, with very slight soft-focused jaggies only becoming visible when sitting very close to the screen.

If you're sitting close enough that 1080p content looks blurred, then the same screen size and the same distance at 1080p will look pixelated. SD content on a 1080p TV looks 'softer' than on a 640x480 monitor, but the sharpness of the SD monitor leads to the pixels being chunky squares. A 14" Sony Trinitron won't look as sharp as a 14" 1080p panel showing upscaled content because the upscaled content is providing higher information density.

 

[iroboto]

According to DF, 1080p upscaled to 4K constantly looks worse than non upscaled 1080p on a 1080p display.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-samsung-ku6400-4k-tv-review : "4K content looks stunning on the KU6400, but when it comes to 1080p and lower resolutions it's worth pointing out that 4K screens in general deliver a softer presentation than a native 1080p display, with more artefacts when viewing at fairly close distances, and the KU640 is no exception. Full HD material still looks excellent on the 40-inch KU6400 screen, mind, with 1-1 pixel details perfectly preserved across test patterns and in Blu-ray movies.

You do lose the pixel-perfect sharpness of a 1080p display, though, which is to be expected, but the upscaling is at least reasonably clean, with very slight soft-focused jaggies only becoming visible when sitting very close to the screen. As such, 1080p games still hold up very well, even though they don't look as good as on a 1080p screen."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-panasonic-dx750-4k-hdr-ultra-hd-tv-review : "Upscaling is somewhat mixed with 4K displays, with lower resolutions appearing softer and less defined compared to native 1080p screens."

This depends solely on the quality of the upscaler. TV sets will price point differently based on the quality of their scaler. So in particular, buying a cheap 4K TV, expect cheap upscaling results, on the flip side expensive TVs have much better upscalers.

The Consoles themselves also have the functionality to upscale, which may or may not be better than the scaler in your TV.

Lastly, I would never trust Eurogamer in high fidelity reviews. It's not their expertise and it shows compared to real TV and audio review sites.

 

[Recop]

If you're sitting close enough that 1080p content looks blurred, then the same screen size and the same distance at 1080p will look pixelated. SD content on a 1080p TV looks 'softer' than on a 640x480 monitor, but the sharpness of the SD monitor leads to the pixels being chunky squares. A 14" Sony Trinitron won't look as sharp as a 14" 1080p panel showing upscaled content because the upscaled content is providing higher information density.

I already made the test with several consoles : upscaled content consistently looked worse to me and DF thinks the same : "As such, 1080p games still hold up very well, even though they don't look as good as on a 1080p screen."

And it's even worse with lower resolution : 720p on a 4K display for instance... and i think that no one would want to play a Super Nintendo game on a 4K display...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I already made the test with several consoles.

How? What was your test methodology?

 

[Recop]

How? What was your test methodology?

My eyes lol. My worst experience was with Resident Evil 4 GameCube on a 1080p display.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You need to compare different displays for it to be a fair test. So a GameCube on a display occupying a certain FOV, followed by GC upscaled to 1080p in the same FOV. These sorts of tests are quite hard to do fairly as display sizes have changed dramatically since the old consoles. Changing seating position to match FOV can address this. Also, the pixelated look of low res games is likely preferable to the significant blur or artefacts of a major upscale. The 4k comparison has the 'blur' happen across a tiny amount of the screen (the size of a single 1080p pixel), and not a substantial part of your FOV unlike the SD upscales.

Does your TV upscale SD content? Which looks better on it - SDTV content upscaled with an advanced upscaling algorithm, or SDTV content pixelated? From my experience, the former every time.

 

[Recop]

Does your TV upscale SD content? Which looks better on it - SDTV content upscaled with an advanced upscaling algorithm, or SDTV content pixelated? From my experience, the former every time.

Yes, i can choose to upscale or not. Without upscaling it's even worse, obviously. Without upscaling, the image is very pixelated.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Therefore the same applies to 4k, no? You either get 'pixelated' 1080p (with small pixels resulting in just a bit of jaggies here and there, depending how close you sit) or smoother 1080p upscaled to 4k.

 

[Recop]

Therefore the same applies to 4k, no? You either get 'pixelated' 1080p (with small pixels resulting in just a bit of jaggies here and there, depending how close you sit) or smoother 1080p upscaled to 4k.

Yes... but i don't get your point ? It's still worse than a non uspcaled resolution on the right display.

Resident Evil 4 Gamecube looked better on my SD TV. It looked worse upscaled on a 1080p display and even worse without upscaling on a 1080p display.

 

[Recop]

Edit : actually, i was wrong. Since RE4 always took the whole screen, then the game was always upscaled... So, the difference was caused by something else.

I thought that a lower resolution could take the whole screen without upscaling, but that's impossible lol.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What size was your SDTV and what size is your 1080p TV? And how did/do you connect the GC to the TVs?

 

[Recop]

What size was your SDTV and what size is your 1080p TV? And how did/do you connect the GC to the TVs?

I don't have the exact size in my head, but both tv are about the same size. I would say that my 1080p display has an average size : not big but not small.

This is what i used to connect my Gamecube on both TV :

 

[function]

Resi Evil 4 on GC was letterboxed iirc, so lower than 448 vertical resolution. Upscaled to a 16:9 screen, if set to scale to remove the borders and with correct aspect ratio, scaling would be greater than for a normal "full resolution" 4:3 GC game so RE4 zoomed in on a 16:9 telly would look worse than many other games.

CRT does a good job of reducing the effect of jaggies due to the "nice" blur generated by a typical TV electron beam's relationship with more than a single phosphor element per pixel. Flicker filters could also give the impression of super sampling fields, so you didn't have to lose as much to interlacing as you might think.

Best way to view GC - as with every none progressive scan console - is RGB through scart. If you think GC games look good on composite, then you ain't seen nothing yet!

Upscaling a composite image - likely to have interference between the colour channels before it even gets into the TV - will simply give you a large area of upscaler blurred, possibly imperfectly de-interlaced, visual filth!

 

[turkey]

I don't have the exact size in my head, but both tv are about the same size. I would say that my 1080p display has an average size : not big but not small.

This is what i used to connect my Gamecube on both TV :

Thoes are composite Av leads, possibly the worst quality leads possible for the gc. That would have been blurry with colour bleed most likely.

Did you did not use an rgb lead?

Edit, beaten to the diagnosis, you know what they say, something in something out

 

[Recop]

Best way to view GC - as with every none progressive scan console - is RGB through scart. If you think GC games look good on composite, then you ain't seen nothing yet!

I simply used the standard material provided with the console lol.

 

[London Geezer]

Composite cables are worse than death.

 

[tuna]

I simply used the standard material provided with the console lol.

Must resist urge to SCREAM!!!!

Anyway, isn't component cables better than RGB Scart for gamecube. Or don't they work on the euro model?

 

[function]

I simply used the standard material provided with the console lol.

Go for something better, like RGB, or component, or a VGA mod if there is one - you won't regret it! You might notice the colour dithering on some games a little more, but it's a small price to pay. If you still use your GC, treat yourself.

Must resist urge to SCREAM!!!!

Anyway, isn't component cables better than RGB Scart for gamecube. Or don't they work on the euro model?

Not sure about component vs RGB on GC - I'm in Europe land and only had RGB scart input at the time so didn't even look into component.