Tonight's episode should be faboo, it should be decided one way or another.
(It's a two-parter, right? Not a three? )
(It's a two-parter, right? Not a three? )
BSG Season 2 Episode 12....
- Thread starter digitalwanderer
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Babel-17
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Well, it's a three parter if you count episode 10.
I don't remember where I read it but it seems this was originally going to be just two episodes. We were only going to get the cliffhanger at the end of the first half of season two and then the finale episode at the start of the second half.
Wiser heads finally prevailed
I don't remember where I read it but it seems this was originally going to be just two episodes. We were only going to get the cliffhanger at the end of the first half of season two and then the finale episode at the start of the second half.
Wiser heads finally prevailed
Yeah, this episode will be great, after this one things will start going back to the status quo of life in the colonial renegade fleet.
I remember reasing somewhere about that too Babel, I forget where and probably can dig it up through google. I thought though it was more like it was originally intended to be two 1.5 hour two parters but Sci Fi channel couldn't spare that time.
But enough of TV politics, on with the show, too bad I'm Pacific Standard Time, have to wait another 3 hours.
It sucks my friend who has digital cable gets Sci-Fi East.
I remember reasing somewhere about that too Babel, I forget where and probably can dig it up through google. I thought though it was more like it was originally intended to be two 1.5 hour two parters but Sci Fi channel couldn't spare that time.
But enough of TV politics, on with the show, too bad I'm Pacific Standard Time, have to wait another 3 hours.
It sucks my friend who has digital cable gets Sci-Fi East.
Babel-17 said:Well, it's a three parter if you count episode 10.
I don't remember where I read it but it seems this was originally going to be just two episodes. We were only going to get the cliffhanger at the end of the first half of season two and then the finale episode at the start of the second half.
Wiser heads finally prevailed
The review above mentioned that, but I was still confused.Babel-17 said:
The original post by Babel is over here.
Babel-17
Veteran
Excellent episode though I do have my nit-picks.
I've mentioned before the excellent editing, this episode happily continues the trend. It keeps the plot moving well and helps pack a heck of a lot of quality TV in the time alloted.
I don't want to go into my nit-picks at this time as it's hard to seperate what might be legitimate from the truly inescapable limitations that such a show has to operate within.
Suffice it to say that while I think the Baltar character is great I long to see him get called out on some of his BS.
Ooh, one thing before I forget, I don't have this episode recorded so I can't provide a quote but something in one of the Apollo/Starbuck dialogues stood out to me. I sort of got the vibe Starbuck was implying that the rapport she and Apollo have would be better if they were on, ah, more intimate terms.
Lol, projection on my part can't be ruled out as having influenced that analysis though.
So many nice touches and nuances to these episodes I don't know where to start. So I try to not let my biggest current quibble with the show, "Hey, these Humlons took part in the nuclear incineration of 99.xx% of humanity, that's a pretty insurmountable obstacle to a relationship", get in the way of plot, character and dramatic development. Fwiw, I don't think the show has dealt satisfactorily with that issue. But I let that slide as, I know I keep saying this, there are limitations to what a TV show can do.
P.S. That space battle seriously rocked!
Edit: This and that for the purpose of improving clarity
I've mentioned before the excellent editing, this episode happily continues the trend. It keeps the plot moving well and helps pack a heck of a lot of quality TV in the time alloted.
I don't want to go into my nit-picks at this time as it's hard to seperate what might be legitimate from the truly inescapable limitations that such a show has to operate within.
Suffice it to say that while I think the Baltar character is great I long to see him get called out on some of his BS.
Ooh, one thing before I forget, I don't have this episode recorded so I can't provide a quote but something in one of the Apollo/Starbuck dialogues stood out to me. I sort of got the vibe Starbuck was implying that the rapport she and Apollo have would be better if they were on, ah, more intimate terms.
Lol, projection on my part can't be ruled out as having influenced that analysis though.
So many nice touches and nuances to these episodes I don't know where to start. So I try to not let my biggest current quibble with the show, "Hey, these Humlons took part in the nuclear incineration of 99.xx% of humanity, that's a pretty insurmountable obstacle to a relationship", get in the way of plot, character and dramatic development. Fwiw, I don't think the show has dealt satisfactorily with that issue. But I let that slide as, I know I keep saying this, there are limitations to what a TV show can do.
P.S. That space battle seriously rocked!
Edit: This and that for the purpose of improving clarity
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Dig is a filthy cheater for making this thread before the damn episode even aired.
Also, the best thing about the episode was that you were totally blah about the space battle. They edited so it was an afterthought; that they would emerge victorious was pretty much a given. That was fantastic.
Also, the best thing about the episode was that you were totally blah about the space battle. They edited so it was an afterthought; that they would emerge victorious was pretty much a given. That was fantastic.
I'm starting to think that Lee could be a Cylon. Something happened out there that made him want to die, and I can only think of 2 things:
1) He lost all faith in humanity when he learned that Madam Prez ordered the assasination, not his father.
2) He saw something when he made the attack run on the resurrection ship, possibly his replacement bodies. The whole bright light/seeing God thing felt very "cylonish"
It's probably 1, but 2 would be cool as hell.
Oh, and the soundtrack to this show amazing.
P.S.
"You're not my type." BAM!
1) He lost all faith in humanity when he learned that Madam Prez ordered the assasination, not his father.
2) He saw something when he made the attack run on the resurrection ship, possibly his replacement bodies. The whole bright light/seeing God thing felt very "cylonish"
It's probably 1, but 2 would be cool as hell.
Oh, and the soundtrack to this show amazing.
P.S.
"You're not my type." BAM!
Babel-17
Veteran
JBark said:
The probably fatal "12 models" limitations aside I find that to be an astounding observation, thanks!
I say "probably" fatal as it only just now occurred to me that it might not be written into stone that the Cylon Humlon project can't evolve.
Hmmm, imagine president Roslyn being offered a nice new pain and disease free bod ..... shades of The Last Temptation of Christ?
Off Topic: Anyone got an additional link to what I bolded?
http://popsurfing.blogspot.com/2006/01/scifi-friday-battlestar-galactica.html
A rudimentary googling revealed nada.
Edit: Apollo said something like, "I hope nobody is looking out the windows". Lol, imagine if someone was.
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I don't think we can really guess Lee's reasoning behind wanting to die. He didn't freak out during the mission, he didn't freak out immediately after... something happened that made him think about it during the attack but after the Blackbird got destroyed. If it were 2, there would have been some earlier indication--it's just out of nowhere, and nothing in the show has been totally out of nowhere. 1 makes a lot of sense and is probably the case.
Babel-17
Veteran
Good points Baron.
I confess I find it hard to avoid over the top speculation. I'm currently wondering if Baltar hasn't used a really non-traditional method of getting the imprisoned Helfer/6 off the Pegasus.
He said he'd get her to a safe place. What safer place to be than as a construct within his own mind?
The show could have a lot of fun with that. Let us see Baltar with her but only when they are alone. Only much later revealing that those moments were of the virtual reality type and that Baltar had disposed of her body before leaving the Pegasus.
But yeah, like The Baron has noted, BSG doesn't pull stunts and giving Baltar such an ability would amount to that unless I've missed something.
Ok, back to reality.
So, where are we as far as the Cylon pursuit goes? They're plenty pissed no doubt but now their lives are really on the line. Do we all agree that the Cylons weren't playing us for fools with that, the loss of their ship was a real and unexpected loss?
Regarding the Pegasus, will that be with us for a while, are we going to see some new regular characters featured?
Thoughts, anyone? I never watch the next episode teasers so apologies if this has been answered in that.
Edit: Some illogical speculation ..... "never mind"
I confess I find it hard to avoid over the top speculation. I'm currently wondering if Baltar hasn't used a really non-traditional method of getting the imprisoned Helfer/6 off the Pegasus.
He said he'd get her to a safe place. What safer place to be than as a construct within his own mind?
The show could have a lot of fun with that. Let us see Baltar with her but only when they are alone. Only much later revealing that those moments were of the virtual reality type and that Baltar had disposed of her body before leaving the Pegasus.
But yeah, like The Baron has noted, BSG doesn't pull stunts and giving Baltar such an ability would amount to that unless I've missed something.
Ok, back to reality.
So, where are we as far as the Cylon pursuit goes? They're plenty pissed no doubt but now their lives are really on the line. Do we all agree that the Cylons weren't playing us for fools with that, the loss of their ship was a real and unexpected loss?
Regarding the Pegasus, will that be with us for a while, are we going to see some new regular characters featured?
Thoughts, anyone? I never watch the next episode teasers so apologies if this has been answered in that.
Edit: Some illogical speculation ..... "never mind"
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BSG doesn't let you do wild speculation, though. That's why it's so good. There's a set of ground rules; they can't just invent some new technology to get them out of a tight spot. Three things have been created on the show, and they were all major plot devices: the Cylon detector, the Cylon transponders, and the Blackbird. They're not just gonna be like "Oh hey, she's in Baltar's head now." nah, she's probably hiding on Colonial One or something.
And it's impossible to gauge what the Cylons are expecting or not. The whole thing wth Baltar's destiny, for example. E.g., when he pointed to the random spot on the surveillance photo of the mining complex in season 1, was that actually the point that needed to be destroyed? Or was it rigged by the Cylons?
And it's impossible to gauge what the Cylons are expecting or not. The whole thing wth Baltar's destiny, for example. E.g., when he pointed to the random spot on the surveillance photo of the mining complex in season 1, was that actually the point that needed to be destroyed? Or was it rigged by the Cylons?
inefficient
Veteran
JBark said:
In one scene Apollo is in the frame twice. You see someone who looks just like him floating through space then you see a second Apollo come up into camera view. It was very odd. They were both wearing the exact same suit and both were in their ejection seats. And it was like he was seeing himself in the 3rd person as he floated by.
But maybe it means nothing...
Babel-17
Veteran
Do we really know the limitations of the chip in Baltar's head?
When Number 6 was on Caprica she was presumably out of reach of the Evangeline ship. I can't see a Cylon being comfortable with that.
Seeing as how getting Baltar off-planet might have been a mandatory part of her mission (or just destiny) then it might also follow that putting a chip in Baltar that could preserve her personality matrix would be the way to go.
If Baltar has twigged to that ..... if the new Number 6, Gina, has the same inate abilities of the older one then Baltar could tell her to "dive in"*.
The big "if" here is whether or not the original number 6 did dl her matrix into Baltar. Not to mention that we seem to stil be deliberately left in the dark as to the definitiveness of the reality of what Baltar sees.
*Overwriting the older copy? Do Cylons do incremental backups?
Ok, feel free to point and laugh. Lol, that's the price I risk paying for the privilege of airing my thoughts on a board that has a lot of critical thinkers.
When Number 6 was on Caprica she was presumably out of reach of the Evangeline ship. I can't see a Cylon being comfortable with that.
Seeing as how getting Baltar off-planet might have been a mandatory part of her mission (or just destiny) then it might also follow that putting a chip in Baltar that could preserve her personality matrix would be the way to go.
If Baltar has twigged to that ..... if the new Number 6, Gina, has the same inate abilities of the older one then Baltar could tell her to "dive in"*.
The big "if" here is whether or not the original number 6 did dl her matrix into Baltar. Not to mention that we seem to stil be deliberately left in the dark as to the definitiveness of the reality of what Baltar sees.
*Overwriting the older copy? Do Cylons do incremental backups?
Ok, feel free to point and laugh.
Lol, that's the price I risk paying for the privilege of airing my thoughts on a board that has a lot of critical thinkers.But there is no chip in Baltar's head. At least, not one that can be detected by anything they have on board the Galactica.
Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't. I still ain't sure if there is or isn't, or if the hot chick only he can see is an external manifestation or internal one....that's what makes it so intriguing for me.The Baron said:
I have no clue what is up with Apollo, 'cept maybe seeing all the people who he admires and modelled himself after in a "stickler for the rules" type attitude put themselves above the law which he holds so dear?
Babel-17
Veteran
The Baron said:
So says the doctor, agreed.
12 model limitation has yet to be defied so the only other option that comes to mind for me is that ol' Doc might have a chip or agenda of his own.
Maybe he sold out for cig's. :smile:
12 model limitation ..... but the thought of a Cylon Humlon puffing away at cig's has its appeal.
P.S. I guess it goes without saying that going beyond the show's Canon of only 12 models would constitute jumping the shark or require something miraculous from the script writers to avoid that?
Though if ol' Doc was an early prototype of the Humlons that never made it to production (too quirky, too unstable, too susceptible to irrecoverable immersion into their roles) .......?
Or maybe a one-of-a-kind that was thought to be needed to be in place in case humanity twigged to a possible invasion?
Well, I just made the argument I suppose but even I would tend to agree that any of the above scenarios lack a certain special something. I don't disagree with the observation that this show doesn't pull cheap stunts so as to have easy plot devices.
I'm at the end of my speculative rope (I hear the sighs of relief) unless I can find a new insight.
I appreciate the tolerance.
Only six more days till the next episode, yay!
Doc could be a Cylon, but why? Doesn't really do anything besides advance really weird plot points. Baltar could just be psychotic. Or he could be a Cylon (although that raises the question of why Six would even need to be there to push him along). I don't think they're ever going to pull "Recurring character is a Cylon!" card again. At least not for a long time.
I still wonder about Gaeta.
I still wonder about Gaeta.
Babel-17
Veteran
Just for the sake of argument,
Suppose the prez doesn't really have a fatal form of cancer. The Cylons want her to think she does so she'll have that edge ..... that willingness to sail beyond the sunset.
We've seen the Doc make at least two key calls.
Baltar has no chip.
Prez has terminal cancer.
Pretty big influence on the show for a minor character.
Btw, how did he score a slot on the ship, I forget.
Was he with the sec'y of education/prez on (the soon to be) Colonial One?
I ask because I think I remember a scene where Roslyn consulted him back on (pre-invasion) Caprica.
I won't even mention how we was off the Galactica when Adama got shot. Nice timing. Though yeah, who better to pull the plug if they wanted him dead. Maybe they wanted his hands clean or he needed to get closer to the pursuing Cylons for new instructions (and/or a chip of some kind?).
Hmmmm, maybe he was supposed to operate on Adama and then our resourceful medic removed the need*.
Ok, the maybe's are piled up sky high and look ready to fall, time for bed.
Oh yeah, before I forget again.
Forget about all my supposition of unrevealed Humlons. Do you think we can expect the issue of humans becoming more Cylon-like, as opposed to the last two seasons of Cylons becoming more human, being raised?
Whether through deliberate intent, ("I need a cybernetic interface to compete with the Cylons in battle"), or by the Cylons just treating us like lab rats.
I realize that we've already seen that by way of the juxtaposition of moral dilemas and what not, we're really forced to re-examine the question "what is human" in a profound way but I'm speaking of an actual physical device.
The show doesn't need to but imo it would make for a valid side-issue for a couple of episodes.
*Following that, was the first shot from Cylon Sharon due to her programming and then the second one was because she (the human Sharon part) subconsiously knew they were going to mess with him.
Suppose the prez doesn't really have a fatal form of cancer. The Cylons want her to think she does so she'll have that edge ..... that willingness to sail beyond the sunset.
We've seen the Doc make at least two key calls.
Baltar has no chip.
Prez has terminal cancer.
Pretty big influence on the show for a minor character.
Btw, how did he score a slot on the ship, I forget.
Was he with the sec'y of education/prez on (the soon to be) Colonial One?
I ask because I think I remember a scene where Roslyn consulted him back on (pre-invasion) Caprica.
I won't even mention how we was off the Galactica when Adama got shot. Nice timing. Though yeah, who better to pull the plug if they wanted him dead. Maybe they wanted his hands clean or he needed to get closer to the pursuing Cylons for new instructions (and/or a chip of some kind?).
Hmmmm, maybe he was supposed to operate on Adama and then our resourceful medic removed the need*.
Ok, the maybe's are piled up sky high and look ready to fall, time for bed.
Oh yeah, before I forget again.
Forget about all my supposition of unrevealed Humlons. Do you think we can expect the issue of humans becoming more Cylon-like, as opposed to the last two seasons of Cylons becoming more human, being raised?
Whether through deliberate intent, ("I need a cybernetic interface to compete with the Cylons in battle"), or by the Cylons just treating us like lab rats.
I realize that we've already seen that by way of the juxtaposition of moral dilemas and what not, we're really forced to re-examine the question "what is human" in a profound way but I'm speaking of an actual physical device.
The show doesn't need to but imo it would make for a valid side-issue for a couple of episodes.
*Following that, was the first shot from Cylon Sharon due to her programming and then the second one was because she (the human Sharon part) subconsiously knew they were going to mess with him.
Babel-17
Veteran
Yup, those quiet ones ....
Edit: http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=145&story=8709
The full multi-page recap usually follows several days after the recaplet.
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Babel-17
Veteran
Huh, seems the show's creator has made a comment or two.
Mmm, suffice it to say that my "Gina is now safe in Baltar's head" speculation can be, ah, retired.
Ah well, Baltar needs some flesh and blood lovin'.
On a brighter note he also said they, the show's writers, count on the fans to keep speculating away.
Lol, comforting. :smile:
Mmm, suffice it to say that my "Gina is now safe in Baltar's head" speculation can be, ah, retired.
Ah well, Baltar needs some flesh and blood lovin'.
On a brighter note he also said they, the show's writers, count on the fans to keep speculating away.
Lol, comforting. :smile:
