The Power of Bitboys Acceleon G40

[PC-Engine]

I just wish NEC would hurry up and release a cellphone using one of the Bityboys chips since they've been cranking out new phone models left and right. 8)

I thought they already had phones using the G10, not that it gives you much in the way of texture mapping.

I don't think they've used the G10 or any other Gxx chips in any of their cellphones...yet. The G10 was integrated into a display IC though for size, cost, and simplicity.

 

[Simon F]

I don't think they've used the G10 or any other Gxx chips in any of their cellphones...yet. The G10 was integrated into a display IC though for size, cost, and simplicity.

Ahh. OK. I might have misheard. At the last OpenVG meeting, I got the impression one of the Bitboys's guys said there was a product and I assumed it was a phone.

 

[Arun]

Who in the mobile space has shown pixel shading in real silicon?

Well, NVIDIA's Pixel Shading is a bigtime marketing BS campaign at best. So I'd say no company has shown real pixel shading in real silicon for this market segment - unless there'd already be a prototype G40 at an usable clockspeed? Didn't keep up to date with that much tbh.
The real advantage IMG has now is that they have a lot of interested companies already. And they can show the MBX2 plans & timeframe to those, to make sure they don't consider the others too seriously; as, after all, there's no point changing to another company if your current supplier got a product better or at least as good just around the corner - if it indeed is as good as the competition, that is.

Uttar

 

[Ailuros]

there's no point changing to another company if your current supplier got a product better or at least as good just around the corner - if it indeed is as good as the competition, that is.

Jon Peddie Research, January 7, 2001:

If the PowerVR MBX
does what VideoLogic
says it will and what
we saw it do in their
lab, we believe several
companies are going
to head back to the
drawing board for
their handheld
graphics products.

That was the past.

There's no geometry processor either on AR10, despite the claims.

Simon,

"Semiconductors"? I presume you aren't talking about some form of AI here.

Sarcasm huh? I read your last patent and I know what you are refering to (like you wouldn't know).

Nappe1,

Can you at least ask the "boys" for some details about the demo? Like poly counts, what they used for the variations on the marble or on the shark's back (dot3 maybe?) etc. etc.

A few details wouldn't hurt. The demo is great and I'll stop here before anyone implies that I like it because of it's content. I'm not a chauvinist.

 

[TEXAN]

All I'm concerned with right now is that the Mali50/55 uses 0.4 mW/Mhz wheras the mbx[L] does 0.5 mW/Mhz

And both numbers are for the .13 parts(i think). I cant believe IMG are being topped in the power/energy consumption department.

 

[Nappe1]

[Nappe1,

Can you at least ask the "boys" for some details about the demo? Like poly counts, what they used for the variations on the marble or on the shark's back (dot3 maybe?) etc. etc.

A few details wouldn't hurt. The demo is great and I'll stop here before anyone implies that I like it because of it's content. I'm not a chauvinist.

well, I tried to get some more information already, but boys are nowadays bit tightlipped about anything too specific, unless you show real interest of licensing in form of signing NDA.

When talked about real time fpga version shown in 3gsm, I asked "we are talking about real time ( min 20 fps), are we?" answer was "of course."


I'll try to ask more about demo tech features.

 

[Simon F]

"Semiconductors"? I presume you aren't talking about some form of AI here.

Sarcasm huh? I read your last patent and I know what you are refering to (like you wouldn't know).

"Whoosh". That's the sound of that comment going right over my head. I'm totally confused.

 

[linthat22]

Finally some BitBoys product!!!!

I'm still waiting for Glaze3D

 

[Ailuros]

All I'm concerned with right now is that the Mali50/55 uses 0.4 mW/Mhz wheras the mbx[L] does 0.5 mW/Mhz

And both numbers are for the .13 parts(i think). I cant believe IMG are being topped in the power/energy consumption department.

Mali is also a TBDR from what it seems. Apart from that are Falanx's numbers from final chips or not? Even if, it should be understandable that both are completely different architectures.

Those MBX numbers you quoted are from the initial small pdf from ARM's site; there was another large one (~1MB) later on. Both have been removed ever since. Performance stats where different between the two forementioned pdf's (the large one was more recent), but I don't recall the exact values either.

Falanx itself moved from 0.6mW/MHz for the Mali100 (max.183MHz) to 0.5mW/MHz for the Mali110 (max.200MHz).

This is a Bitboys related thread by the way *cough*

 

[TEXAN]

I think all of these new bitboys, falanx, nvidia goforce4800 chips are produced on 90nm.

They have to be because I've been doing a bit spec comparison and they completely blow the MBX out of the water in terms of features, such as pixel shading which mbx lacks, and 200mhz clock speeds all the while they are as energy efficient as the mbx's aswell, if not more so

If this is the case then IMG need to get a move on and develop MBX on 90nm aswell. Or else this will be another market they'll get squeezed out off aswell, what'll be painfull is that they were the first ones on the block.

The MBX in the OMAP2420 (silicon was shown at ISSCC) was in 90nm and clocked at 200 MHz. Area is around 10mm^2.

Who in the mobile space has shown pixel shading in real silicon?

Was that the MBX or MBX Lite?

Because TI have licensed both.

 

[Ailuros]

well, I tried to get some more information already, but boys are nowadays bit tightlipped about anything too specific, unless you show real interest of licensing in form of signing NDA.

They have to. You can't imagine how secretive semiconductors are when it comes to IP stuff.

When talked about real time fpga version shown in 3gsm, I asked "we are talking about real time ( min 20 fps), are we?" answer was "of course."

I'd be extremely worried if it wouldn't.

I'll try to ask more about demo tech features.

That would be nice. Actually a few notes on their site next to the demo link would had been better. I mean ok it's a beautiful underwater demo picturing an imaginary Atlantis; but my curious nature also wants to know what exactly I'm looking at from a technical perspective.

 

[Ailuros]

Oooops just noticed that one:

The MBX in the OMAP2420 (silicon was shown at ISSCC) was in 90nm and clocked at 200 MHz. Area is around 10mm^2.

SiBoy,

10mm^2 for the entire SoC or just for MBX? If the latter's the case that sounds huge, especially for 90nm.

 

[Simon F]

The MBX in the OMAP2420 (silicon was shown at ISSCC) was in 90nm and clocked at 200 MHz. Area is around 10mm^2.

Who in the mobile space has shown pixel shading in real silicon?

Was that the MBX or MBX Lite?

Because TI have licensed both.

Given the date of the following press release, I'm sure you could deduce the answer: (....unless they can spin chips in super duper record time!!!!)

Imagination Technologies and Texas Instruments Extend Licensing Agreement
TI Licenses PowerVR MBX Lite Graphics Core
------------------------------------------

7 February 2005

London, UK: Imagination Technologies [LSE:IMG], a leader in system-on-chip intellectual property (SoC IP), announced today that Texas Instruments Incorporated (TI), has licensed Imagination’s PowerVR MBX Lite™ graphics core for integration into a new range of applications processors based on TI’s OMAP™ 2 architecture for mobile phones.

This deal extends the existing collaboration between Imagination Technologies and TI that has already seen another member of Imagination’s mobile graphics family, namely the PowerVR MBX™ graphics core, integrated into TI’s OMAP 2 architecture.......

 

[Nappe1]

well, I tried to get some more information already, but boys are nowadays bit tightlipped about anything too specific, unless you show real interest of licensing in form of signing NDA.

They have to. You can't imagine how secretive semiconductors are when it comes to IP stuff.

you know, I have been watching long enough 3D HW development to know this already. Plus, able to know stuff like 3 different manufacturer unreleased chips' specs at the same time (during autumn 2001...), should indicate that I know something about "accessing" information that is not nessessarily available as public documents. Plus lot's of lot's of work to differentate rumours from facts using technique I call 'blind cross check' to make something more reliable than what's nowadays posted in Anandtech news. ("32x Stochastic FSAA... and the brooklyn bridge." )

(during these years, I have been screwing your heads with Matrox and Bitboys stuff, you have been seing here only tip of the ice berg even from confirmed info without even mentioning about what has been going on when building up "rumour puzzle."... though some stuff from active days gotten revealed on The M Bus Company story.)

When talked about real time fpga version shown in 3gsm, I asked "we are talking about real time ( min 20 fps), are we?" answer was "of course."

I'd be extremely worried if it wouldn't.

this question was originally put by certain individual from this forum who works for certain benchmark software maker. And he (though not being exactly up to mobile side) commented after the answer: "really nice then. "

I'll try to ask more about demo tech features.

That would be nice. Actually a few notes on their site next to the demo link would had been better. I mean ok it's a beautiful underwater demo picturing an imaginary Atlantis; but my curious nature also wants to know what exactly I'm looking at from a technical perspective.

we all are. that's why we are here. It's aaaaall about the tech. (who makes it is complete secondary thing, as long as it's technically and visually impressive.

 

[SiBoy]

Oooops just noticed that one:

The MBX in the OMAP2420 (silicon was shown at ISSCC) was in 90nm and clocked at 200 MHz. Area is around 10mm^2.

SiBoy,

10mm^2 for the entire SoC or just for MBX? If the latter's the case that sounds huge, especially for 90nm.

Hah, just for the MBX of course. A whole OMAP2 apps processor in 10mm^2?

 

[SiBoy]

Falanx itself moved from 0.6mW/MHz for the Mali100 (max.183MHz) to 0.5mW/MHz for the Mali110 (max.200MHz).

This is a Bitboys related thread by the way *cough*

I love when core vendors showing FPGA demo's claim power consumption

 

[Ailuros]

Those are FPGA numbers? Now I feel stupid

No wonder I considered 10mm^2 "huge", when looking at claimed 3mm^2@130nm for the Mali110.

 

[Kristof]

This is shown in Bitboys stand at 3gsm.

Strange since I was at 3GSM (from start till finish) and I visited the Bitboys stand a number of times and all I saw running was their SVG demo and their spaceship landing demo. All running on FPGA systems. I saw no closed booth section so that makes behind closed doors a bit difficult. I even asked about G40 and was told it was not on the show ? :?

Ah well maybe they hid it under the desk everytime I came by 8)

Would have liked to see this tough. Looking at the movie it looks mainly like a lot of texture projection combined with render to texture for both the shadows and the caustics like effects. Not sure if you need pixel shaders for that though.

K-

 

[Simon F]

Ah well maybe they hid it under the desk everytime I came by 8)

Serves you right for wearing that sign that said "industrial spy".

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So what do all these widgets do/mean? Are these for mobile phones or PDAs? When are they appearing and what kind of power consumption do they have? How do they compare with the PSPs capabilities?