How can I tell that the drivers for this thing are using Sensaura algorithms? If you go to Realtek's Spec Sheet, you'll see that they mention 3DPA as optional. Is it in their reference drivers?
Realtek ALCx50 and Sensaura 3DPA
- Thread starter swaaye
- Start date
I feel like replying to myself:
I emailed Realtek and they had this to say...
In disjointed english I believe that means they dropped Sensaura support (I'm almost certain the driver had a Sensaura file called Audio3d.dll a revision or two ago, maybe I'll verify). With the news of VIA switching to QSound from Sensaura, we are seeing a somewhat interesting change in the sound card market......I doubt both Realtek and VIA switching at nearly the same time is a coincidence.
I emailed Realtek and they had this to say...
In disjointed english I believe that means they dropped Sensaura support (I'm almost certain the driver had a Sensaura file called Audio3d.dll a revision or two ago, maybe I'll verify). With the news of VIA switching to QSound from Sensaura, we are seeing a somewhat interesting change in the sound card market......I doubt both Realtek and VIA switching at nearly the same time is a coincidence.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
Sage said:
Why make anything new when you can use your market dominance and huge bank balance to buy, and then bury any competition that looks like it might be innovating?
It's the Creative way, and why I was so grateful for Nvidia's Soundstorm. At least with SS I could make my PC a Creative-free zone. Now I guess I'll have to wait for ATI to do an Azalia motherboard before I upgrade.
It's companies like Creative that show us why we should be greatful for the likes of AMD and ATI being around to provide competition to the incumbents.
Yeah, but they determined that "Suppress or Buy-out!" would be a bit too aggressive sounding...Sage said:
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
it's companies like Creative that make us appreciate companies like Intel that, although they may have a bad rep amongst some people, could be a LOT more evil if they wanted to be. (notice I didn't say "companies like Intel and nVidia...")
asicnewbie
Newcomer
I'm a bit puzzled here. I had the (mis)fortune of buying a generic A3D (Au8810 "Aureal1"?!?) based soundcard back in 1998. Let me go over its problems:
1) random crackling when simultaneously playing MP3 files and doing any kind of GUI-update, like scrolling or dragging a window. (Well, this was a common problem across many different PCI motherboards + PCI soundcards of the time.)
2) occasional random lockups in A3D-enabled games (sadly, I didn't get to try many of them) (Ok, I had one of those infamous Via MVP3 "Super7" motherboards, birthplace of the hatred for all subsequent Via AGP chipsets!)
3) mediocre/lousy MIDI playback performance, compared to the Yamaha YMF724 or Soundblaster Live (hey! MIDI playback still mattered in those days!)
In positional-audio, I do agree that the "positional effects" beat SB-Live's EAX. (With headphones, at least.) But a true discrete 4-speaker setup is better than any 2-speaker setup (A3D 1.0 or EAX 1.0.) I didn't get a chance to try A3D v2.0 or the later positional-APIs.
Aureal the company may have prepared a great API compared to EAX 1.0, but from what I remember, myself and most other A3D owners concluded the A3D chips needed more work. The SB/Live had its own share of bugs, but the A3D's problems affected system stability.
I'm not glad, I'm not sorry A3D (the company) is gone. Are people here really so enamored with Aureal's stuff that they'll live with its quirks, warts and all? Or are they just reminiscing through rose-colored glasses?
1) random crackling when simultaneously playing MP3 files and doing any kind of GUI-update, like scrolling or dragging a window. (Well, this was a common problem across many different PCI motherboards + PCI soundcards of the time.)
2) occasional random lockups in A3D-enabled games (sadly, I didn't get to try many of them) (Ok, I had one of those infamous Via MVP3 "Super7" motherboards, birthplace of the hatred for all subsequent Via AGP chipsets!)
3) mediocre/lousy MIDI playback performance, compared to the Yamaha YMF724 or Soundblaster Live (hey! MIDI playback still mattered in those days!)
In positional-audio, I do agree that the "positional effects" beat SB-Live's EAX. (With headphones, at least.) But a true discrete 4-speaker setup is better than any 2-speaker setup (A3D 1.0 or EAX 1.0.) I didn't get a chance to try A3D v2.0 or the later positional-APIs.
Aureal the company may have prepared a great API compared to EAX 1.0, but from what I remember, myself and most other A3D owners concluded the A3D chips needed more work. The SB/Live had its own share of bugs, but the A3D's problems affected system stability.
I'm not glad, I'm not sorry A3D (the company) is gone. Are people here really so enamored with Aureal's stuff that they'll live with its quirks, warts and all? Or are they just reminiscing through rose-colored glasses?
Or we just simply never had this much problem you're painting here?
And we, unlike you, heard A3d v2.0, therefore we can tell the difference?
FYI an old article; http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/benchmarks/A3D20.html
And we, unlike you, heard A3d v2.0, therefore we can tell the difference?
FYI an old article; http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/benchmarks/A3D20.html
I have a Monster Sound MX300 (Vortex2). In 2 speaker mode the 3D effect is just stunning. I was playing Diablo 2 on it just the other day and it was just a new experience with the card compared to what I'm used to with my old Live and now my Audigy2. It's just a much superior effect compared to ANYTHING else (in 2 speaker mode) I've ever heard (Live, Audigy 2, Realtek, CMedia) for 2 speakers (yes some people use only 2 speakers, believe it or not, especially in space-limited settings.)
The Vortex 2 & A3D2 just create this strange, sweet sound that just is candy to my ears. It's very hard to describe, but you CAN hear things around you. It was an amazing technology that was buried and killed by Creative.
Now I understand that Creative's engineers (actually EMU engineers probably) had a differing opinion about how 3D audio should be created. Aureal used some fancy algorithms to fake the sound, and used some really fancy (and fake-ish) audio wavetracing. Aureal went for tricks to create a arguably unreaslistic 3D sound experience, whereas Creative didn't. Creative had EAX which is just fancy reverb (it's a good bit more sophisticated now, but that's all EAX 1 and 2 were). Aureal had different plans, and they were superior IMO.
Gotta say though that compared to my Audigy 2 ZS, the analog circuitry on the MX300 is total garbage! I wonder how much better A3D 2 would sound if the cheap Diamond card wasn't obliterating the output!
The Vortex 2 & A3D2 just create this strange, sweet sound that just is candy to my ears. It's very hard to describe, but you CAN hear things around you. It was an amazing technology that was buried and killed by Creative.
Now I understand that Creative's engineers (actually EMU engineers probably) had a differing opinion about how 3D audio should be created. Aureal used some fancy algorithms to fake the sound, and used some really fancy (and fake-ish) audio wavetracing. Aureal went for tricks to create a arguably unreaslistic 3D sound experience, whereas Creative didn't. Creative had EAX which is just fancy reverb (it's a good bit more sophisticated now, but that's all EAX 1 and 2 were). Aureal had different plans, and they were superior IMO.
Gotta say though that compared to my Audigy 2 ZS, the analog circuitry on the MX300 is total garbage! I wonder how much better A3D 2 would sound if the cheap Diamond card wasn't obliterating the output!
Exactly. EAX is only an extension set for MS' DS3D, based on fake preprogrammed settings.
Creative's EAX had nothing to do with positioning - that was only some crappy reverb and that's it.
EAX2 got some basic positional and environmental support like occlusion but that's it. Still the same ol' crappy reverbs.
At the same time A3D 2.0 was already out and widely supported, using real-time sound rendering, based on evironmental geometry etc.
Aureal vs Creative: classic case when the cheap, low-level mass-manufactured sh*t beats the better, reallly advanced product and kills the real development, evolution.
PS: Heck, I still have the A3D v3.0 reference pdf somewhere, probably in the full A3D 3.0 SDK package... 8)
Creative's EAX had nothing to do with positioning - that was only some crappy reverb and that's it.
EAX2 got some basic positional and environmental support like occlusion but that's it. Still the same ol' crappy reverbs.
At the same time A3D 2.0 was already out and widely supported, using real-time sound rendering, based on evironmental geometry etc.
Aureal vs Creative: classic case when the cheap, low-level mass-manufactured sh*t beats the better, reallly advanced product and kills the real development, evolution.
PS: Heck, I still have the A3D v3.0 reference pdf somewhere, probably in the full A3D 3.0 SDK package... 8)
I wonder if I can get my dirty hands on it somehow... The 3D positioning audio in Audigy 2 ZS is pretty good, especially for multichannel speaker set. However, there is no much improvement for stereo speakers or headphones over old A3D.
It's a pity that both Aureal and Sensaura were bought by Creative. Creative has a nasty habit to stall development when there is no competition. However, sound cards are not selling well either. Most people don't buy sound cards because they think the built-in audio are "good enough." This is unlike 3D cards, which you'll need if you want to play 3D games with pretty graphics.
It's a pity that both Aureal and Sensaura were bought by Creative. Creative has a nasty habit to stall development when there is no competition. However, sound cards are not selling well either. Most people don't buy sound cards because they think the built-in audio are "good enough." This is unlike 3D cards, which you'll need if you want to play 3D games with pretty graphics.
It really goes to show that people don't really place a lot of importance on what they hear or how they hear it.
Audio technology has so much potential for development, and is just as important as graphics for enhancing the immersiveness of gaming....
Too bad people just can't see the potential and have very little interest, as you said, in buying a real audio card instead of sticking with the half-ass software Realtek codecs on almost every motherboard (and notebook) these days.
Audio technology has so much potential for development, and is just as important as graphics for enhancing the immersiveness of gaming....
Too bad people just can't see the potential and have very little interest, as you said, in buying a real audio card instead of sticking with the half-ass software Realtek codecs on almost every motherboard (and notebook) these days.
T2k said:
WTF?
Did you actually read what I wrote?
EAX vs A3D = preprogrammed fake shit vs real-time wavetracing.
Did you ACTUALLY hear the performance of Audigy 2 ZS on a headphone or stereo setup?
The HRTF algorithms in current Audigy 2 ZS is already as good as the good old A3D, if not better. It just not improved much.
