Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[eastmen]

The best Xbox console experience today on Series X because of Game Pass and they still have several first-party titles that appear on Xbox sooner than on other platforms, and this is true for the next period as well. Not to mention the great Game Pass discounts, early acces, etc. To me, this is clear, and to many who are part of the Xbox ecosystem with a significant library, this is exactly how they believe it. In the same way, you only comment on what you think is possible through your own lens, but we are not the same in points of view. I can also give an example of what others say. I read from many people on social media that they choose Game Pass from MS rather than buying full-price games. This will become more and more true and will be realized in more and more people, just look at Nintendo's announcement today about 80-90 euro games...

To you. If you want the best graphics on a console then the best xbox experience is the ps5/ ps5 pro. IF you want the best value xbox experience then its just running xcloud on your enabled smart tv.

For you older game pass or obscure game pass games are a value to you. For someone else a lot of those games may hold zero value.

For others it can be cheaper to get pc game pass and just invest in a pc. The additonal cost of game pass ultimate over game pass pc can be used towards better pc components although there are some $600-800 laptops that will offer a similar or better experiance to xbox and be used for more things than gaming.

WeHowever, high-quality Game Pass requires hardware, which can be PC and Xbox today. Since tomorrow MS will change its strategy at the hardware level and combine the traditional console model with a PC, it will be possible for anyone to buy an Xbox console in the future. Belive or not, Xbox PCs will be exactly consoles, playing a similar role as the current ones, only with more options. And by bringing the Xbox OS to PC, MS will probably appeal to a significant audience in the future. If you don't see this right now, it just means that you don't judge the situation well. MS is a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars and they decided that they want a significant role in the gaming business. They are constantly improving Game Pass, just look at how many better games from their studios appear in their Day1 subscriber service, you can see these ads step by step. Since streaming is not yet ready for this, they need hardware to distribute Game Pass, which more and more people are discovering on PC. That's why Xbox PCs come in different forms, and even though they launch these products with different strategies, they will still be considered Xbox consoles from the point of view of the average customer. If we turn it on with the same convenient controller and with a few clicks we are in the game, they give the feeling, then people will definitely consider these products to be Xboxes. This is just a matter of proper marketing.

LIke I said once they put out a xbox pc that allows for steam , gog , epic , andriod store fronts that is the end of xbox. MS will loose out on additional game sales to those store fronts. There will also be either no more exclusives or very few with exclusives that take away another reason to own an xbox system.


Microsoft is a large company yes and they have lost out of many markets because they stop competing. Microsofts current marketing is that you no longer need xbox hardware becasue everything is an xbox. They seem to agree with me that there isn't a reason to buy xbox hardware or at least a very compelling reason for people outside of their very niche base of which you seem to be a big part of.

Their current push is diminishing xbox hardware sales. I don't see anything that will increase next gen hardware sales over this generation and I'm a large xbox fan. After 4 xbox generations I don't see a reason to buy a 5th xbox

 

[Cyan]

Spoiler: large image

View attachment 13389

Windows 11 is getting a full-screen Xbox mode that you can boot into New references in an in-development version of Windows 11 mention a 'full screen' gaming experience that you can boot into, perfect for handhelds.

Xeno (@xenopanther.bsky.social)

27826 LXP removes most mentions of Hololens from the Settings app There is also a mention of "Boot into the Full screen experience at device startup" and "Choose your Full screen experience" which both fall under Gaming_GamingPosture_ChooseHomeApp

bsky.app

 

[see colon]

I swear to God I said this for like the past two years. It didnt have to be this way but its how things are moving at the moment and I dont think its against what Phil is planning. From his perspective, MS Gaming wins by providing its games onto every single platform, possibly even day and date. So there's much less incentive to invest or focus on their own hw and even game store ecosystem.

I think it's important to note that 2 previously exclusive, Sony owned IP titles were announce for Switch earlier this week. Microsoft is ahead of the curve when it comes to multiplatforming their titles, but Playstation is doing it as well. It doesn't make sense to leave money on the table.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Are you sure Valve is going to give MS some of their Steam store revenue? I dont think so. Do they give MS a piece of Steam store sales on PC?

No, I'm not sure. I didn't write that I was sure.

 

[rntongo]

No, I'm not sure. I didn't write that I was sure.

Yeah I dont see why they would do a revenue sharing agreement if they're not at the moment on Windows PCs. Unless I'm not aware and currently Steam and Epic have a revenue sharing agreement with MS on Windows. Then what you said would be plausible.

I think it's important to note that 2 previously exclusive, Sony owned IP titles were announce for Switch earlier this week. Microsoft is ahead of the curve when it comes to multiplatforming their titles, but Playstation is doing it as well. It doesn't make sense to leave money on the table.

The nuance missing is that Sony releases old titles onto PC. I dont know any major first party IP that is being released day and date on Playstation and PC. For this and other reasons(seamless console experience) There's reason to buy Playstation hw or buy/subscribe to their Playstation store. My point was MS is essentially laying the groundwork for other game stores and services to take over on Xbox branded hw made by OEMs. I think the two companies in this regard have very different strategies.

 

[eastmen]

Windows 11 is getting a full-screen Xbox mode that you can boot into New references in an in-development version of Windows 11 mention a 'full screen' gaming experience that you can boot into, perfect for handhelds.

Xeno (@xenopanther.bsky.social)

27826 LXP removes most mentions of Hololens from the Settings app There is also a mention of "Boot into the Full screen experience at device startup" and "Choose your Full screen experience" which both fall under Gaming_GamingPosture_ChooseHomeApp

bsky.app

Yea i said this a long time ago. This was the logical conclusion for making a windows platform to target handheld gaming devices. The real question is what will they do in the back round to reduce the resource hogging that windows does in its current state.

 

[Cyan]

Yea i said this a long time ago. This was the logical conclusion for making a windows platform to target handheld gaming devices. The real question is what will they do in the back round to reduce the resource hogging that windows does in its current state.

yup. they should unclutter it. Resources aside, other typical Windows quirks are switching to another screen/resolution, games should adapt to a new screen automatically for a seamless gameplay. No notifications, no odd stuff throwing you to the desktop...

It'd be also interesting to see how a lite and clean Windows would improve the performance of games compared to full-fledged W11.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Yeah I dont see why they would do a revenue sharing agreement if they're not at the moment on Windows PCs. Unless I'm not aware and currently Steam and Epic have a revenue sharing agreement with MS on Windows. Then what you said would be plausible.

It's plausible because on Xbox MS owns the hardware, not just the OS.

The nuance missing is that Sony releases old titles onto PC. I dont know any major first party IP that is being released day and date on Playstation and PC. For this and other reasons(seamless console experience) There's reason to buy Playstation hw or buy/subscribe to their Playstation store. My point was MS is essentially laying the groundwork for other game stores and services to take over on Xbox branded hw made by OEMs. I think the two companies in this regard have very different strategies.

The Xbox only has one console exclusive now, but it's the best one - GamePass.

 

[eastmen]

yup. they should unclutter it. Resources aside, other typical Windows quirks are switching to another screen/resolution, games should adapt to a new screen automatically for a seamless gameplay. No notifications, no odd stuff throwing you to the desktop...

It'd be also interesting to see how a lite and clean Windows would improve the performance of games compared to full-fledged W11.

I've been waiting for a clean windows for a long time , they keep canceling it lol. We will see. I think we should be seeing windows 12 soon also

 

[QPlayer]

To you. If you want the best graphics on a console then the best xbox experience is the ps5/ ps5 pro. IF you want the best value xbox experience then its just running xcloud on your enabled smart tv.

For you older game pass or obscure game pass games are a value to you. For someone else a lot of those games may hold zero value.

For others it can be cheaper to get pc game pass and just invest in a pc. The additonal cost of game pass ultimate over game pass pc can be used towards better pc components although there are some $600-800 laptops that will offer a similar or better experiance to xbox and be used for more things than gaming.

LIke I said once they put out a xbox pc that allows for steam , gog , epic , andriod store fronts that is the end of xbox. MS will loose out on additional game sales to those store fronts. There will also be either no more exclusives or very few with exclusives that take away another reason to own an xbox system.


Microsoft is a large company yes and they have lost out of many markets because they stop competing. Microsofts current marketing is that you no longer need xbox hardware becasue everything is an xbox. They seem to agree with me that there isn't a reason to buy xbox hardware or at least a very compelling reason for people outside of their very niche base of which you seem to be a big part of.

Their current push is diminishing xbox hardware sales. I don't see anything that will increase next gen hardware sales over this generation and I'm a large xbox fan. After 4 xbox generations I don't see a reason to buy a 5th xbox

The best Xbox gaming experience is still available on the Xbox Series X, thanks to the MS’sfirst-party games in their subscription service and the great deals that come with the Xbox console. No matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise. Specifically, Game Pass has been making more and more NEW first-party releases MUCH cheaper on Day 1 than buying those Xbox games at full price on another platforms. Game Pass will include all past, current, and future Xbox games, so anyone who subscribes can try out all of their games and decide if they’re worth playing. That means it also acts as a sort of Demo system for every game released, and that number is already over 500, lots of great . There are barely a few Xbox games currently available for PS5 or Switch, whether they will be in the future is another matter, but there are CURRENTLY barely any MS games for any other console compared to the XSX offerings. So the claim that Sony or Nintendo’s platform provides a better Xbox experience, due to the lack of games and the lack of GP service, is completely unfounded. Additionally, many of MS's first-party games are released later on other platforms. A platform where you can only play Xbox games months later doesn't give you the best Xbox experience, compared to a dedicated Xbox platform where everything is available from day one.


As for graphics, XSX = PS5, pspro is just an overpriced midgen upgrade that can barely do anything more visually than XSX, even YouTubers sweat to show the average buyer the graphical differences compared to an XSX or a regular PS5. If you want the best graphics for Xbox games, there are PC games, Day1 with all MS in-house games in Game Pass too. There is a significant visual difference compared to current consoles. Of course, that comes at a price. So price/value is quite a key issue here.

I sit back and enjoy this great experience comfortably on my current Xbox console on the XSX, and thanks to GP I get access to a lot of in-house games at a very reasonable price. If I have an Xbox PC with a console-like UI, then for me it will be the same Xbox experience as on my current console. Moreover, there will be more options for graphic settings and game modification. If there isn't a desktop device like this anytime soon, I'll build a form factor power PC and figure out how to power it up with a controller, then play Xbox games on it in big screen mode with the GP subscription system. In this case, that will be the same Xbox experience, because a device like this meets the criteria for an Xbox experience for me.

 

[rntongo]

It's plausible because on Xbox MS owns the hardware, not just the OS.

Okay I see what you're saying. Plausible they may try to get a revenue sharing deal but I dont see Valve going for such an agreement or offering any substantial revenue sharing. Why would they? Its MS thats asking them to help a fledgling hw business and subscription service thats slowed down. If anything having Steam store on the PC/Xbox helps Xbox not really the other way round since in any case Steam is available on normal PCs and future Steam OS desktops. I really dont see the benefit.

The Xbox only has one console exclusive now, but it's the best one - GamePass.

There are good aspects to Gamepass and there are some bad ones, but lets be honest, its not growing and bringing people into the Xbox ecosystem like exclusive games do.

 

[QPlayer]

Okay I see what you're saying. Plausible they may try to get a revenue sharing deal but I dont see Valve going for such an agreement or offering any substantial revenue sharing. Why would they? Its MS thats asking them to help a fledgling hw business and subscription service thats slowed down. If anything having Steam store on the PC/Xbox helps Xbox not really the other way round since in any case Steam is available on normal PCs and future Steam OS desktops. I really dont see the benefit.


There are good aspects to Gamepass and there are some bad ones, but lets be honest, its not growing and bringing people into the Xbox ecosystem like exclusive games do.

Let's be honest. What we know: Xbox has been selling less of its traditional consoles lately (the reason is the lack of first-party game releases in the past period, but we'll leave that for now, because the games now coming), and MS has also been holding back the sales of its Series consoles since the end of last year. So it seems that MS will not be building on the traditional console model in the future. The other thing we know is that GP subscription numbers are increasing on PC, this is the latest news. There are no public figures, we only know this official information.

Meanwhile, MS is just pumping the GP offering with better and better games and big titles. Probably because they see a lot of revenue from it.

The internet is full of rumors about merging with the PC console, which is almost certain, even the code name of the project and the identity of the first OEM partner have been revealed. So this is a real thing.

Game Pass is working well, but the traditional console business is not. That's why MS is going in the PC direction with a hybrid software/hardware strategy.

 

[rntongo]

Let's be honest. What we know: Xbox has been selling less of its traditional consoles lately (the reason is the lack of first-party game releases in the past period, but we'll leave that for now, because the games now coming), and MS has also been holding back the sales of its Series consoles since the end of last year. So it seems that MS will not be building on the traditional console model in the future. The other thing we know is that GP subscription numbers are increasing on PC, this is the latest news. There are no public figures, we only know this official information.

Yes I agree with you on this.

Meanwhile, MS is just pumping the GP offering with better and better games and big titles. Probably because they see a lot of revenue from it.

The internet is full of rumors about merging with the PC console, which is almost certain, even the code name of the project and the identity of the first OEM partner have been revealed. So this is a real thing.

Yes and they are also selling their titles outside Gamepass onto competing platforms. It doesnt look like Gamepass is as profitable as people think because they wouldnt have resorted to this.

Game Pass is working well, but the traditional console business is not. That's why MS is going in the PC direction with a hybrid software/hardware strategy.

The traditional console business is not working well for MS and they needed COD and Activision + bringing their core titles to Playstation to increase revenues

 

[QPlayer]

Yes I agree with you on this.



Yes and they are also selling their titles outside Gamepass onto competing platforms. It doesnt look like Gamepass is as profitable as people think because they wouldnt have resorted to this.


The traditional console business is not working well for MS and they needed COD and Activision + bringing their core titles to Playstation to increase revenues

I agree with this, they considered a multi-platform strategy necessary in addition to GP. Their games have been developed/made for years, these games need to perform well in the market on multiple levels. Therefore, they follow two business models. However, one does not exclude the other, even can also strengthen each other.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Okay I see what you're saying. Plausible they may try to get a revenue sharing deal but I dont see Valve going for such an agreement or offering any substantial revenue sharing. Why would they? Its MS thats asking them to help a fledgling hw business and subscription service thats slowed down. If anything having Steam store on the PC/Xbox helps Xbox not really the other way round since in any case Steam is available on normal PCs and future Steam OS desktops. I really dont see the benefit.

Steam is not on consoles and Steam could benefit from this.

There are good aspects to Gamepass and there are some bad ones, but lets be honest, its not growing and bringing people into the Xbox ecosystem like exclusive games do.

Sure it is. Almost everyone I know that has an Xbox is there because of GamePass.

Yes and they are also selling their titles outside Gamepass onto competing platforms. It doesnt look like Gamepass is as profitable as people think because they wouldnt have resorted to this.

Not true either. GP is highly profitable. They went multiplatform to make even more money.

The traditional console business is not working well for MS and they needed COD and Activision + bringing their core titles to Playstation to increase revenues

They don't need to. They want to.

 

[eastmen]

The best Xbox gaming experience is still available on the Xbox Series X, thanks to the MS’sfirst-party games in their subscription service and the great deals that come with the Xbox console. No matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise. Specifically, Game Pass has been making more and more NEW first-party releases MUCH cheaper on Day 1 than buying those Xbox games at full price on another platforms. Game Pass will include all past, current, and future Xbox games, so anyone who subscribes can try out all of their games and decide if they’re worth playing. That means it also acts as a sort of Demo system for every game released, and that number is already over 500, lots of great . There are barely a few Xbox games currently available for PS5 or Switch, whether they will be in the future is another matter, but there are CURRENTLY barely any MS games for any other console compared to the XSX offerings. So the claim that Sony or Nintendo’s platform provides a better Xbox experience, due to the lack of games and the lack of GP service, is completely unfounded. Additionally, many of MS's first-party games are released later on other platforms. A platform where you can only play Xbox games months later doesn't give you the best Xbox experience, compared to a dedicated Xbox platform where everything is available from day one.

But again you don't need an xbox for Game pass. I can use it on the tv I already own or my fire stick.

As for graphics, XSX = PS5, pspro is just an overpriced midgen upgrade that can barely do anything more visually than XSX, even YouTubers sweat to show the average buyer the graphical differences compared to an XSX or a regular PS5. If you want the best graphics for Xbox games, there are PC games, Day1 with all MS in-house games in Game Pass too. There is a significant visual difference compared to current consoles. Of course, that comes at a price. So price/value is quite a key issue here.

According to digital foundry games like Sea of theives already plays better on ps5 vs xbox series x and the ps5 pro is an upgrade over that experience. I can have a ps5 pro and game pass on my tv and play all the games day one and then play all 3rd party games on the ps5 pro and sony exclusives.

I sit back and enjoy this great experience comfortably on my current Xbox console on the XSX, and thanks to GP I get access to a lot of in-house games at a very reasonable price. If I have an Xbox PC with a console-like UI, then for me it will be the same Xbox experience as on my current console. Moreover, there will be more options for graphic settings and game modification. If there isn't a desktop device like this anytime soon, I'll build a form factor power PC and figure out how to power it up with a controller, then play Xbox games on it in big screen mode with the GP subscription system. In this case, that will be the same Xbox experience, because a device like this meets the criteria for an Xbox experience for me.

Thats great for you.


Now tell me if its such an amazing experience why is xbox hardware the only console platform declining in sales ?

 

[eastmen]

Steam is not on consoles and Steam could benefit from this.

Sure it is. Almost everyone I know that has an Xbox is there because of GamePass.

Not true either. GP is highly profitable. They went multiplatform to make even more money.

They don't need to. They want to.

1) why would Valve give MS any % of profits. They can and are putting out their own steam os product.

2) How many of them are new to the xbox ecosystem ? I don't actually know anyone in my circle that has bought a series console that didn't have a one

3)they will end up loosing xbox hardware sales and third party sales on xbox. THe market is already showing the future of xbox

4) xbox as a hardware platform is a dead man walking at this point. I believe they will find out that people don't want game pass once the xbox console hardware is dead. . We are already seeing the decline in hardware sales when no other console has it. At the end of the day I believe even game pass will die because nintendo and sony wont want it on their platforms to eat up sales of their third party games and it wont sustain itself on windows and streaming.

 

[rntongo]

Steam is not on consoles and Steam could benefit from this.

Hmmm, not sure there would be any incentive for Steam to do a revenue sharing agreement to go onto another PC. Its essentially just an Xbox branded PC.

Not true either. GP is highly profitable. They went multiplatform to make even more money.

MS gaming's most recent revenue and earnings growth primarily came from the Activision acquisition i.e revenues from Activision's third party publishing business. Not from GP. MS stopped sharing GP profitability numbers iirc just revenues.

They don't need to. They want to.

Okay, lets take it like that

 

[rntongo]

1) why would Valve give MS any % of profits. They can and are putting out their own steam os product.

Good point, to add its going to simply be an Xbox branded PC like what incentive is there really

2) How many of them are new to the xbox ecosystem ? I don't actually know anyone in my circle that has bought a series console that didn't have a one

I bought the Series X because I wanted to play great games. Idid subscribe to gamepass ultimate but mainly bought games and expected MS to produce a serious line up this gen which they honestly didnt deliver. Now in the second half they have more titles lined up but their hw is tittering on the brink of death.

3)they will end up loosing xbox hardware sales and third party sales on xbox. THe market is already showing the future of xbox

This is unfortunately how things stand as of today. Most people who buy Xbox as their primary gaming machine dont want a PC or Xbox branded PC. So those will most likely go to Sony and not even PC. Maybe some may try building their own PCs and using Steam and very very few will continue with Xbox because they actually believed in Xbox as a console business.

4) xbox as a hardware platform is a dead man walking at this point. I believe they will find out that people don't want game pass once the xbox console hardware is dead. . We are already seeing the decline in hardware sales when no other console has it. At the end of the day I believe even game pass will die because nintendo and sony wont want it on their platforms to eat up sales of their third party games and it wont sustain itself on windows and streaming.

For me the most obvious thing was the everything is an Xbox campaign, that was the clearest sign for me they were giving up on this whole hw thing. Like as things stand today, they're just going to have OEMs release Xbox branded PCs running Windows and an Xbox OS. With Steam being the gamestore.

 

[iroboto]

This is unfortunately how things stand as of today. Most people who buy Xbox as their primary gaming machine dont want a PC or Xbox branded PC. So those will most likely go to Sony and not even PC. Maybe some may try building their own PCs and using Steam and very very few will continue with Xbox because they actually believed in Xbox as a console business.

There are a ton of assumptions here for this to happen. At the end of the day price king. You can always compete on price. They share the majority of the library with Sony.

They can most definitely continue to compete. In a world where tariffs are being bordered up everywhere, MS has the advantage of deploying to multiple configurations to meet the price points that countries expect. The next generation Xbox could be intel for all we know, and intel chips are manufactured in the US and globally. This isn’t something Nintendo or Sony can do.

If US is the main market, once these tariffs go into place, whatever remaining stock there is, expect a massive increase in price very soon. And we know the price will go up, Sony has some of the smallest margins there are despite having the most revenue.

Xbox is already in the negative, so they don’t really care to sell more hardware, even more so now Until they can get costs under control.