Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
- Thread starter iroboto
- Start date
cheapchips
Veteran
Valve updated their marketing/logo guidelines in Dec to support 3rd party devices running SteamOS. In interviews for the Lenovo SteamOS event they talked about SteamOS 3 coming to other devices. It's just that Lenovo is is first.
Plans can change, but it's not just people reading too much into commit messages.
@fehu I think people are reading too much into the controller. I'm not saying that I don't think this is going to be some sort of Xbox device (everything is an Xbox, after all), but if you go to the ROG website, they have 2 Xbox/PC controllers and a bunch of phone controllers. They aren't showing anyone else's product in that clip, and why would they show a phone controller with their handheld.
Also, that short video, it's a reference to The Fly (remake), where Dr Ian Malcolm invents a teleporter and and teleports himself and a fly together, and they get merged into a singular organism. He turns into a dinosaur that wreaks havok on the city when he's brought back to the mainland until he is lured back to the docks by his child by Cindy Lauper and her spirit guide Louise. Then Will Smith slaps the computer virus into the motherships mainframe and.... Yeah I might have that mixed up. But it looks in the Asus video that the robot, handheld and controller get merged into a single device. I read that as if they are hinting that the new handheld has AI.
Also, that short video, it's a reference to The Fly (remake), where Dr Ian Malcolm invents a teleporter and and teleports himself and a fly together, and they get merged into a singular organism. He turns into a dinosaur that wreaks havok on the city when he's brought back to the mainland until he is lured back to the docks by his child by Cindy Lauper and her spirit guide Louise. Then Will Smith slaps the computer virus into the motherships mainframe and.... Yeah I might have that mixed up. But it looks in the Asus video that the robot, handheld and controller get merged into a single device. I read that as if they are hinting that the new handheld has AI.
.
You can do the same now with a fire stick. They have also been testing game pass ultimate family versions .
This is part of my point. There isn't going to be a need for xbox hardware going forward. If you are happy with streaming a game then you can keep an xbox one or xbox series s for generations. IF you want the best dedicated console experiance for many of the xbox games then a ps5 /pro would get you that not an xbox series s or x based on
I've actually based this on talking with a wide range of people.
You say these people need future dedicated console hardware to play their xbox games in high quality. But that isn't actually true since MS is going to upgrade their xcloud hardware at the same time as new consoles.
But lets say you are right. They wont go streaming or to computer. The real problem comes from the fact that game pass isn't growing and xbox hardware is declining. Xbox 360 was the peak and each generation is selling less and less. Game pass hasn't resulted in more hardware sales. Game pass is only bringing in value orientated purchasers . The issue with this is that there is an even better value which is just using game pass ultimate on existing hardware like your xbox one /series or fire stick or smart tv or whatever you have that it works on vs buying new xbox hardware.
What % of the game pass ultimate buyers who also have bought an xbox series will buy an xbox next ? What is the compelling reason to buy an xbox next ? IF you want the best quality on game pass ultimate you'd want a gaming pc and then you'd be able to buy all playstation , xbox and pc titles and play them at the highest quality.
Without exclusives to xbox hardware or at the very least locked into xbox hardware and the pc there isn't much of a reason to buy new xbox hardware. At this point since MS is so intertwined with 3rd party publishing its highly unlikely there will even be some revolutionary hardware addition that can be utilized well as that would stop them from bringing the games to other platforms.
At the end of the day MS is its own worse enemy. They should have been more clear and more ridged in their 3rd party strategy.
I think the end of xbox hardware will only speed up if you can install steam on xbox. I'd simply enjoy my game pass ultimate for the next 5 years that I have it while buying anything not on it on steam thus MS loosing out on that money
No you didnt get his point. Making an MS Xbox/PC hybrid device with a Steam store is bound to fail if the aim is to boost Gamepass. The biggest benefit is going to the Steam store, it would be almost no different than getting a PC and installing Steam. That was his point. If GP doesnt sell well with a dedicated device then it wont with a competing store on a device(s).
Especially if the watered down Xbox branded PC comes with competing stores.
Last edited:
You still don't get it. There are tens of millions of gamers in the Xbox console ecosystem who want a new Xbox console with Game Pass, in a console-shaped box. Future Xbox PCs will give these users exactly that. They will start with OEM Handheld Xbox this year, and then continue with the desktop versions, probably. If these devices have an easy-to-use console-like plug and play experience to play, then many will still consider them Xbox consoles.
However, MS's goal with these devices is probably not primary, they will just be part of the Xbox ecosystem. The main strategy will be to bring a full-fledged Xbox OS to every PC. If I want to play in the best possible console experience using the increasingly better value Game Pass service, then I have two options. Either I build a formfactor PC with the future Xbox OS or I buy one of these dedicated Xbox PCs from one of the manufacturers. GP has become such a priority for me that this is clearly the ecosystem I choose.
Actually, with these Xbox PCs, MS is ensuring that the brand remains on a hardware level too, and that's a great thing.
This sounds good in theory but would be an optimization nightmare. You wont have as seamless an experience as on a closed system console. I think a lot more Xbox console die hards are going to go to Playstation and Nintendo.
For gamers, the only thing that matters is the gaming experience. Would playing on a Steam Deck be a nightmare? Not likely, I've read mostly satisfied reviews. Presumably the Xbox PC experience will be the same. And how many people choose the Xbox ecosystem in terms of hardware will be determined mostly by the value of Game Pass.
But how does this make economical sense for Xbox? I can see how it helps slow down Steam OS if MS can convince Valve that its store will become defacto the game store of Windows and Xbox but otherwise Xbox as a brand could die regardless. If most consumers using the Xbox/PC hybrid are simply playing on Steam then whats the point?
That assumes it doesn't just include gamepass for a time, as we all know subscriptions are often forgotten and paid for after they aren't being used. And it assumes the only goal is to get a gamepass sub. I'm not one that believes that SteamOS is going to destroy Windows, simply because enterprise and office work is going to account for most of Windows revenue anyway. But a Windows powered Deck-Like will help contain the leakage in mindshare, both by proving that Windows can do what SeamOS does - and more, and showing that Microsoft isn't sitting idle while Valve eats their lunch and flirts with their wife.
The only people who bought a SD are mostly people who are on PC already and are used to tweaks and tinkering. Putting the average low-tech-literacy Xbox guy on a SD would give them an aneurism.
No it does, what benefit to MS Gaming and in particular Xbox does having Steam store compete with Gamepass on an Xbox??(I've mentioned periphery benefits it could provide to Windows dominance on PC but thats besides the point wrt Xbox or MS Gaming as it is today) I'm not surprised Xbox is in this position, every obviously wrong move gets praise. This just tells me Xbox + Gamepass aren't performing as well as anticipated and MS is considering making third party publishing their main strong point.
this is why this may push more people to Nintendo or Sony or take some people away from custom PCs. I just dont see how it benefits Gamepass or any Xbox gaming store at all.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
If these rumors are true, I don't think MS is looking at it that way.
They're looking at it from a whole ecosystem point of view.
They expect that the average XSX owner with GP will upgrade to the new system as a GP box and then there's extra value because Steam is on it as well. They're not really worried that these GP users are going to start spending big money on Steam (which likely would be revenue shared with MS on Xbox anyway) and ditching GP. Steam on Xbox is a little bonus to me. It doesn't really change the fact that I want a GP sub box.
Conversely, the Steam PC guy that doesn't care about GP, but no longer wants to monkey with PCs has an option to buy a Steam box from MS (where again, they likely get a cut of new Steam stuff purchased).
It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. GP guys with Steam as a bonus and Steam guys that MS can sell GP to as well.
They're looking at it from a whole ecosystem point of view.
They expect that the average XSX owner with GP will upgrade to the new system as a GP box and then there's extra value because Steam is on it as well. They're not really worried that these GP users are going to start spending big money on Steam (which likely would be revenue shared with MS on Xbox anyway) and ditching GP. Steam on Xbox is a little bonus to me. It doesn't really change the fact that I want a GP sub box.
Conversely, the Steam PC guy that doesn't care about GP, but no longer wants to monkey with PCs has an option to buy a Steam box from MS (where again, they likely get a cut of new Steam stuff purchased).
It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. GP guys with Steam as a bonus and Steam guys that MS can sell GP to as well.
No I hear what you are saying but you aren't hearing what I am saying. Each generation since the 360 there are less people who want traditional xbox consoles. Now we remove exclusive games and there will be more people who leave the platform.
The oem handheld xbox isn't an xbox. Everything points to it being an asus rog ally with xbox branding.
Not only that all it would do if it is an xbox is have people pump more money into a shrinking product that at any point wont sell enough to justify its life
You say two things that don't go with each other. Right now the best console experience even with xbox games is the PlayStation 5 and ps5 pro. The cross platform games from digital foundry's anylists are best on playstation.
It's great that you enjoy Game pass. But again you are doing what you accuse me of doing. You are looking at it through your own lenses. Like I said I spoke to many people who only own sony or nintendo or pc or xbox and every type of mix there is. They have all said the same thing to me which is that if there are no exclusives to xbox they'd rather put their money into a different console or into their pc.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I don't think MS cares that much if Xbox non-GP guys leave the platform. They don't make enough money on those users.
The improvements to PS versions of games are so marginal it's not even worth talking about.
The reality of what you said though is that Xbox platform revenues are not high enough to matter anymore, except revenue from GP users. That means that MS is ok with losing 30% of their userbase in order to sell to 80% more people on PS and Switch.
The only reason MS is making a new Xbox is because of GP users. They represent an attach rate of 21 1st party titles. Even Nintendo dreams of that.
The real question is "How many of the 30 million console GP subscribers is MS going to lose because they put games on PS and Switch at full price?"
I argue that it won't be more than 5 or 10 million fans. Others around here think it's going to collapse GP into a singularity and destroy the Xbox ecosystem. We'll see how it all plays out.
The improvements to PS versions of games are so marginal it's not even worth talking about.
The reality of what you said though is that Xbox platform revenues are not high enough to matter anymore, except revenue from GP users. That means that MS is ok with losing 30% of their userbase in order to sell to 80% more people on PS and Switch.
The only reason MS is making a new Xbox is because of GP users. They represent an attach rate of 21 1st party titles. Even Nintendo dreams of that.
The real question is "How many of the 30 million console GP subscribers is MS going to lose because they put games on PS and Switch at full price?"
I argue that it won't be more than 5 or 10 million fans. Others around here think it's going to collapse GP into a singularity and destroy the Xbox ecosystem. We'll see how it all plays out.
The best Xbox console experience today on Series X because of Game Pass and they still have several first-party titles that appear on Xbox sooner than on other platforms, and this is true for the next period as well. Not to mention the great Game Pass discounts, early acces, etc. To me, this is clear, and to many who are part of the Xbox ecosystem with a significant library, this is exactly how they believe it. In the same way, you only comment on what you think is possible through your own lens, but we are not the same in points of view. I can also give an example of what others say. I read from many people on social media that they choose Game Pass from MS rather than buying full-price games. This will become more and more true and will be realized in more and more people, just look at Nintendo's announcement today about 80-90€ games...
However, high-quality Game Pass requires hardware, which can be PC and Xbox today. Since tomorrow MS will change its strategy at the hardware level and combine the traditional console model with a PC, it will be possible for anyone to buy an Xbox console in the future. Belive or not, Xbox PCs will be exactly consoles, playing a similar role as the current ones, only with more options. And by bringing the Xbox OS to PC, MS will probably appeal to a significant audience in the future. If you don't see this right now, it just means that you don't judge the situation well. MS is a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars and they decided that they want a significant role in the gaming business. They are constantly improving Game Pass, just look at how many better games from their studios appear in their Day1 subscriber service, you can see these ads step by step. Since streaming is not yet ready for this, they need hardware to distribute Game Pass, which more and more people are discovering on PC. That's why Xbox PCs come in different forms, and even though they launch these products with different strategies, they will still be considered Xbox consoles from the point of view of the average customer. If we turn it on with the same convenient controller and with a few clicks we are in the game, they give the feeling, then people will definitely consider these products to be Xboxes. This is just a matter of proper marketing.
Last edited:
Are you sure Valve is going to give MS some of their Steam store revenue? I dont think so. Do they give MS a piece of Steam store sales on PC?
I swear to God I said this for like the past two years. It didnt have to be this way but its how things are moving at the moment and I dont think its against what Phil is planning. From his perspective, MS Gaming wins by providing its games onto every single platform, possibly even day and date. So there's much less incentive to invest or focus on their own hw and even game store ecosystem.
This, I really dont think the most hardcore Xbox fans are prepared for the implications of whats happening. Steam, Epic on PC, Playstation and Nintendo are going to be the defacto platforms for gaming as things stand today unless MS Gaming changes something.
Similar threads
