DavidGraham
Veteran
DF benchmark is up, fps regressions compared to 14900K and fps pacing issues, it's not looking good.
Intel themselves saying it just matches Raptor in gamingWhat makes you concretely confident of that?
In the review, they mention they use HWINFO to gather CPU power statistics...Check CPU package power for games there, ARL is 2-3x more effective as RPL.Intel Core Ultra 9 285K, 7 265K & 5 245K vs. AMD Ryzen im Test: Gaming-Leistung
Intel Core Ultra 200S im Test: Gaming-Leistung / Leistungsrating FPS und Frametimes / Core Ultra mag RAM-OC / Anno 1800www.computerbase.de
They also have a summary graph there.
Fully threaded (production) workloads seem to fare a bit worse but there is still a visible perf/watt gain.
As part of their review, GamersNexus pointed out software readings of CPU package power may not be telling the whole story:https://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/intel-core-ultra-200s-285k-265k-245k-test.90019/seite-4 said:...over the duration of the benchmark, the telemetry is read out every second with HWiNFO. The maximum and mean values are then determined.
Gamers Nexus used a completely hardware-based measuring system for the CPU and system board, even to the point of dissociating PCIe power for the video card during measurements. Their methodology found the 285K power efficiency is still better than the 14900k, to the tune of about 57% in the most favorable readings, or losing to the 14900k by ~18% in the least favorable readings (where framerate went down, despite power also being down.) The pertinent YouTube link here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXLY8kEdR1c&t=510s said:Here's the comparison we've all wanted: in 7-zip, ignoring EPS12v, we noticed that the ATX12V power was exceptionally high on a 285k and the Z890 Hero combination, compared to the 14900k and Z790 Hero. It's at about 50W here, where the 14900K had the ATX12V down around 30W."
As far as I understood Gamernexus latest video the "traditional" way to measure perf/watt doesn't really apply to the latest Intel cpu. He went into some elaborate measurement setup to get more accurate results.Check CPU package power for games there, ARL is 2-3x more effective as RPL.Intel Core Ultra 9 285K, 7 265K & 5 245K vs. AMD Ryzen im Test: Gaming-Leistung
Intel Core Ultra 200S im Test: Gaming-Leistung / Leistungsrating FPS und Frametimes / Core Ultra mag RAM-OC / Anno 1800www.computerbase.de
They also have a summary graph there.
Fully threaded (production) workloads seem to fare a bit worse but there is still a visible perf/watt gain.
You mean Arrow Lake, Alder was 12th gen CoreYeah, to Sean's point, I'm waiting to see some laptop tests running the new Alder Lake procs. That's when you get into the battery life tests, which is where the new process will be able to demonstrate efficiency superiority -- or not.
TBH it feels like 8 real cores matter today more than threadsHow do games perform on 6-8 thread CPUs? I'm wondering how much losing SMT is affecting gaming performance. Seems like games have been expecting 10+ threads for a while now. Are the E cores now picking up more work in games?
How do games perform on 6-8 thread CPUs? I'm wondering how much losing SMT is affecting gaming performance. Seems like games have been expecting 10+ threads for a while now. Are the E cores now picking up more work in games?
But it will probably no exceptions beat 4 core 8 thread by miles even if these theoretical CPUs would be a match in perfectly thread scaling appSome games run better with SMT/hyperthreading disabled and some games run better with it enabled. So the choice of 8 cores with no hyper-threading is going to be a win or a loss depending on the game.
Well, to be fair, that was always going to be true on any x86 processor, regardless of AMD or Intel. Symmetric multithreading works by permitting more individual execution units to operate simultaneously when feasible.But it will probably no exceptions beat 4 core 8 thread by miles even if these theoretical CPUs would be a match in perfectly thread scaling app
I’m actually kind of curious about side-channel attacks. If you disable HT or SMT how many security mitigations can you safely disable and how much performance does it get you. Besides security I would guess that HT probably loses in an application that is cache sensitive. So maybe a large L3 can help mitigate the drawbacks. I do think alder lake is really interesting. I’ve always liked the idea of a bunch of small cores to handle a lot of background stuff.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out in terms of windows optimizing for the platform because it’s a shit os.
But then why did they ditch SMT?In all cases x86, one CPU core which operates in SMT fashion will never yield the same performance as two individual CPU cores. Nevertheless, the overall power consumption and silicon die size of doublng total CPU core count vs providing SMT with half core count will always favor the latter.
But then why did they ditch SMT?
I'm wondering why Arrow Lake gets brutalized by Raptor Lake in some games.
Officialy due to power reasons. SMT leads to worse perf/watt than non-SMT.But then why did they ditch SMT?
I really don't know. @Albuquerque just established the opposite is true:Officialy due to power reasons. SMT leads to worse perf/watt than non-SMT.
Unofficially they are working on a different approach to better h/w utilization which wasn't ready for ARL.
It does make sense that scheduling becomes ridiculously complicated when you have P cores with Hyperthreads and also E cores. For a given application is it better to task all physical (P+E) cores first and then start tasking the Hyperthreads? Or fill up the threads on the P cores before tasking the E cores? Not sure how you would even know this in advance. And it might depend on whatever else you have going on at the time.In all cases x86, one CPU core which operates in SMT fashion will never yield the same performance as two individual CPU cores. Nevertheless, the overall power consumption and silicon die size of doublng total CPU core count vs providing SMT with half core count will always favor the latter.