Apart from Far cry (god bless fra cry), Assassin's creed, Prince of Persia, some Tom Clancy stuff, and Rabbids maybe, what are the big IPs they own? Rayman?
UBIsoft in potential financial trouble
- Thread starter Silent_Buddha
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Judging by this common trend happening not just in games, but other products that fail and trigger outrage, the simultaneous projection of DEI through different media, and the push through social sciences with creative theories presented as "science" in politics, I m starting to believe that there are unseen agendas at play.
I ve seen subjects even in Wikipedia altered to satisfy these ideologies. Even historical events and cultures.
For example eunuchs in certain cultures that had no concept of social gender, who served specific roles (such us guarding the harem hence the castration, or to remove sexual desire) are now presented as a third gender. WTF?
Unfortunately, those making these decisions aren't the ones who get fired.
cheapchips
Veteran
Guillemot nudge nudging wing winking 'oh, maybe these basement dwelling anti DEI dweebs are onto something' is just a laughable and tasteless misdirection. It's a management issue and UBIsoft is riddled with them. Not sure who's CEO of Ubisoft though? Maybe he can find out?
Disney and Ubisoft's Star Wars issue is same. Big budget productions which have delivered at best, mediocre entertainment*. The script, plots and editing in most of Disney's efforts are naff. I've not played Outlaws, but sounds like the whole thing is just ok and that doesn't cut the mustard.
* except Andor. And although you can argue it features a white male lead, he's really boring and space-french so it doesn't count.
Disney and Ubisoft's Star Wars issue is same. Big budget productions which have delivered at best, mediocre entertainment*. The script, plots and editing in most of Disney's efforts are naff. I've not played Outlaws, but sounds like the whole thing is just ok and that doesn't cut the mustard.
* except Andor. And although you can argue it features a white male lead, he's really boring and space-french so it doesn't count.
This is not a politics thread. The presentation of a set of values influencing a company direction, and wider market motions, is fine, but the origins and purposes of that set of values is OT.
What the public wants is obviously bourne out in sales, but the blanket idea that there is some trend for DEI, or dare I use the undefinable term "woke" games failing wholesale is not being proven by those sales. Look at the Steam curator dedicated to exposing games that contain DEI/woke content. They don't recommend Starfield, Hogwart's Legacy, any of the Call of Duty games, or Balders Gate 3 - Some of the best selling games. Even Space Marine 2 is filled with "Overtly Pro-DEI content" according to them, but it's one of the fastest selling games so far this year.
Here's an article about the best selling games of 2024 so far from August.
Here's the spreadsheet of games from that Steam curator, because searching is easier.
Basically every game on the best selling list is either reviewed (mostly sports games or non-steam games like Minecraft) or are listed as "not recommended", with the exceptions of GTAV and Helldivers 2 which still have the "informational" label for having some "pro-LGBTQ+ content" and "pro-DEI content". If this is the ideology that is supposedly killing Ubisoft titles, it isn't killing the rest of the industry.
There isn't a clear trend towards games on the not recommended list failing. There are certainly failures there, but there are also successes and almost all of the successes are either not recommended or contain some content the curator objects to. I don't think we can distill Ubisoft's problems to something as simple as the public rejecting some ideology, because sales of games featuring the same type of ideology that is purported to be ruining Ubisoft games are some of the best selling games so far this year. It's a bit more that they make a bunch of same-y games that I think many people aren't interested in buying every year with budgets that have ballooned to near unsustainable levels. Skull and Bones, for example, was likely too expensive with it's protracted development, and should have probably been rescoped into a smaller experience or cancelled earlier. PoP The Lost Crown though... Not sure on that one. It reviewed well, and on Steam most of it's negative reviews are about the Uplay Connect requirement, and a few about difficulty. But I don't think that game sold as well as Ubi wanted, either. Ubisoft's situation is complicated, because they have recently made some good titles that just haven't performed, and I think their misses (like Skull and Bones) might be affecting their good titles in reputation, and thus sales, more than any controversy regarding ideology.
cheapchips
Veteran
Kyle Bosman has the usual excellently sarcastic take on the state of Ubisoft.
(but regrets that he forgot to mention Skull and Bones)
(but regrets that he forgot to mention Skull and Bones)
Playstation is next. Same causes will do the same effects.
The argument is probably/possibly one of degrees. It may not be the message or existence of any particular ideology that makes a game unappealing, but if the game takes it to an extreme, or compromises the game (or other artistic endeavour) for non-gaming values.
Whatever it is, Ubi need to work it out and address it, if its not too late.
But it's also important for the wider industry to know what makes for a flunk. Although in some cases it's obvious like Skull and Bones. Possibly someone needs to look at what has sold and what hasn't and compare Ubi's output to other successful and unsuccessful titles, see if there's any obvious pattern or delta.
While I like Ubisoft and have some games on their Ubisoft store -HoMM games mostly-, they've done many things wrong. Facts:
- They have lost practically 100% of their market value in the last three years. The shares have gone from being worth $108 to $9.
- They get the Star Wars license. They are going to make a Han Solo game, but they back out and put a girl as the main character and make the game Woke as hell, it seems like the dialogues were written by the human resources department.
- The game is a mess, nobody gives a shit about the release and it takes a huge hit in sales. Not to mention that the game had a thousand editions and if you wanted all the content you had to pay 110€ (digital version) or so.
- After years and years of the community asking for it, they decide to release an Assassins Creed in Japan (and they are late with Ghost of Tsushima).
- They put in a black samurai and a girl. People go crazy and Japan goes crazy, even historians on the subject of Yasuke, the black samurai.
- We were a month and a half away from the launch and practically no gameplay. They have delayed the game to February.
- A lot of the content they had shown was the black man destroying Japanese villages, and killing the Japanese.
- They released a Funko figure of the black samurai on a Tori arch destroyed in half. That is a symbol of the destruction of Nagasaki by the atomic bomb. To give you an idea, it is as if they released a collector's edition of Spiderman with Spiderman on the destroyed Twin Towers.
- Guillemot, the CEO, giving statements assuring that their objective is having fun and not to introduce a woke agenda.
Let's see how far they can sink.
- They have lost practically 100% of their market value in the last three years. The shares have gone from being worth $108 to $9.
- They get the Star Wars license. They are going to make a Han Solo game, but they back out and put a girl as the main character and make the game Woke as hell, it seems like the dialogues were written by the human resources department.
- The game is a mess, nobody gives a shit about the release and it takes a huge hit in sales. Not to mention that the game had a thousand editions and if you wanted all the content you had to pay 110€ (digital version) or so.
- After years and years of the community asking for it, they decide to release an Assassins Creed in Japan (and they are late with Ghost of Tsushima).
- They put in a black samurai and a girl. People go crazy and Japan goes crazy, even historians on the subject of Yasuke, the black samurai.
- We were a month and a half away from the launch and practically no gameplay. They have delayed the game to February.
- A lot of the content they had shown was the black man destroying Japanese villages, and killing the Japanese.
- They released a Funko figure of the black samurai on a Tori arch destroyed in half. That is a symbol of the destruction of Nagasaki by the atomic bomb. To give you an idea, it is as if they released a collector's edition of Spiderman with Spiderman on the destroyed Twin Towers.
- Guillemot, the CEO, giving statements assuring that their objective is having fun and not to introduce a woke agenda.
Let's see how far they can sink.
I think that version is included with Ubisoft+ for $17.99 a month, or $179.99 a year.
Ubisoft issues:
- Massive downgrades from teaser to release
- Games dumbed down to a point n click experience
- AI without the I
- More editions than actual games sold
- Destroying their PC sales by being hell bent on enforcing their own store usage
They make vapid games. People get bored of them and when the next one feels like a reskin of the last one, people just move on.
- Massive downgrades from teaser to release
- Games dumbed down to a point n click experience
- AI without the I
- More editions than actual games sold
- Destroying their PC sales by being hell bent on enforcing their own store usage
They make vapid games. People get bored of them and when the next one feels like a reskin of the last one, people just move on.
They’re the comfort food of the industry. A mindless romp that’s not going to change your life. People aren’t willing to pay $70 for that. I would bet that Ubisoft games are “eventually” profitable after years of sales and discounts. Not launching on Steam is also a ridiculous own goal.
Very good summary.While I like Ubisoft and have some games on their Ubisoft store -HoMM games mostly-, they've done many things wrong. Facts:
- They have lost practically 100% of their market value in the last three years. The shares have gone from being worth $108 to $9.
- They get the Star Wars license. They are going to make a Han Solo game, but they back out and put a girl as the main character and make the game Woke as hell, it seems like the dialogues were written by the human resources department.
- The game is a mess, nobody gives a shit about the release and it takes a huge hit in sales. Not to mention that the game had a thousand editions and if you wanted all the content you had to pay 110€ (digital version) or so.
- After years and years of the community asking for it, they decide to release an Assassins Creed in Japan (and they are late with Ghost of Tsushima).
- They put in a black samurai and a girl. People go crazy and Japan goes crazy, even historians on the subject of Yasuke, the black samurai.
- We were a month and a half away from the launch and practically no gameplay. They have delayed the game to February.
- A lot of the content they had shown was the black man destroying Japanese villages, and killing the Japanese.
- They released a Funko figure of the black samurai on a Tori arch destroyed in half. That is a symbol of the destruction of Nagasaki by the atomic bomb. To give you an idea, it is as if they released a collector's edition of Spiderman with Spiderman on the destroyed Twin Towers.
- Guillemot, the CEO, giving statements assuring that their objective is having fun and not to introduce a woke agenda.
Let's see how far they can sink.
I think there’s also an element of “luck” in which games the anti-woke crowd happen to target. Ubisoft must have known though that Assassins Creed Shadows would be a lightning rod for controversy. It commits at least two sins of promoting a female combatant and “out of place” diversity.
That Steam list is pretty telling. Apparently any representation of brown people or women in an action or historical European setting is woke. Women in positions of authority is also woke..which is just lol. I don’t know how you make a modern game without breaking at least one of those rules.
Outlaws got flak for having a female main character who isn’t a thirst trap. That probably wasn’t the reason for the poor reception though. The trailers and marketing were pretty terrible. I bet a better executed launch would’ve made all the difference.
That can't be an issue as there are plenty of female protagonists in well-selling games, such as Mirror's Edge, Returnal, and Control.
I doubt it speaks for the majority of gamers who's buying habits are evading Ubi games. There'll be a percentage of gamers who'll shun a game for choice of protagonist, but I think the majority care about other things like actual game quality, who may be somewhat influenced by 'wokeness' as an additional reason to avoid a game already in the balance. I dare say it's when there's just too emphasis on attempted cultural influence, rather than any presence at all, that it starts to become objectionable to the mainstream.
I think, short of real research, people are just guessing based on their own feels.
Agreed.
Yeah and it’s hard to say whether the attempted cultural influence is intentional on the part of the developers or artificially amplified by the crowd that jumps at any opportunity to vilify diversity. I have no idea what Ubisoft was thinking of course but the inclusion of underrepresented groups in Shadows seems like more of a conscious decision than in Outlaws given the setting (historical vs fantasy).
While I don't disagree that it's a limiting factor, I do think there is some merit in limiting a single store's influence on the industry. It might not be sustainable to avoid Steam completely, especially if you are financially compromised like Ubi is right now.
Indeed. That, and there is definitely some bias in the scale. Total War: Rome II is "not recommended" because women perform "historically inaccurate" roles. Age of Empires 3 is "informational" because of the same thing. AOE3 Definitive Edition is "not recommended" because a developer's note says they removed some "problematic content" (which were somewhat racist caricatures of some societies, IIRC) and because the game is anti-colonial. I think the original game was anti-colonial at the same scale, and I don't know how you can classify a game based on content that isn't in it. "Games not racist, must be woke".
None of those games have been curated by this group.
The AC games have often been diverse. And they are science fiction games. I think people are being overly sensitive about this stuff because games are supposed to be fun, and they should be able tot ell the story they want to tell. The insistence on a game to be 100% historically accurate is silly to me. Just let the game speak for itself, and be fun, or not.
I think most people aren't influenced by the vocal minority and won't refuse a game because some groups vilify it. If there's a general consensus that a game is 'too woke', I think that would be a general attitude regardless how people are talking about it. It's hard not to make this too political about whether any percentage of 'woke' is wrong and societal responses to certain values, but I think some trends are natural and not the product of influence. The number of people of every age and status I see rejecting too much diversity suggests to me there's potentially a natural degree of tolerance for diversity beyond which it becomes too much. Like spices in a dish - the right amount is great but too much ruins the dish.
I'm not suggesting that or advocating it and only presenting it here as a possibility of what companies might be facing. Perhaps the start to the modern 'woke' (I still don't really get that word!) culture was a fair and necessary change in attitudes but they've taken it too far? So the solution wouldn't be to abandon these ideals completely to appease the loud detractors, but to reign it in a bit to ensure it's palatable to the Everyman? Or not.
But we can't really tell what the Everyman is thinking/feeling without a decent survey, and one they won't feel ashamed to answer honestly. If it's natural for human beings to being against a certain amount of 'woke' but they're afraid saying so would brand them a bad person, they might lie about their attitudes and we'd never know the real causes.
I think is very much a personal preference thing, and not an issue of prejudice. Some people don't care about connections in entertainment, but for some the entertainment has to fit their mental models or they seem to get a degree of cognitive dissonance. This definitely happens with me when you get a historical drama that greatly over-represents the proportion of alternative-colour folk. We only have massive diversity now due tot the invention of mass transport. Back when it took people years to travel, there just wasn't that much mixing of populations. Show me a modern New York full of every type of person and it's fine, but show me a 14th Century London with the same diversity and it just doesn't sit right. Now of course that then impacts the opportunities for coloured actors, say, if so much of the Western story-telling is based in Western history, at which point you may feel the need to make creative liberties. And over time and exposure to more diversity in unrealistic contexts, people like me might become desensitised - maybe our sensitivity is born entirely from what we saw growing up; it's not like we experienced 14th Century London ourselves! Or, people form natural tribal groups and will always be resistance to too much mixing groups. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Point being, as a business wanting to appeal to the widest market, I don't think creating a universe that finds resistance and then hoping people will just 'get over it' is a great long-term position. It really needs people to be understood to find what needs to change, what can change, and what can't. But at the moment we just have two sides bashing each other over the head and little real talk and understanding and everyone's just guessing the right course of actions between the two vocal sides, afraid of both. If in Ubi's shoes, which trends do your follow, which do you try to 'trend set', and which do you avoid as probably a bad idea?
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