Poll: What's your minimum framerate?

[Albuquerque]

With an overclocked 4090, I don't think I have any games that play at less than 60FPS. I typically use my Steam Deck to do the in-home streaming, and the HDMI output on the dock is limited to 4k60Hz so that's the limit I was personally speaking to.

I believe I can configure it to 4k30Hz in the settings, if not directly from the GUI then from the Linux desktop side of the SteamOS.

 

[ZebMacahan]

I often stream to my Sammy QN90 which is a full array mini-LED setup. However I've never tried a game at less than 60Hz. I suppose I could go try it out, anything specific you want to know?

Yes, 30 fps on OLED is terrible because of the super fast pixel respons time. I have no trouble with 30 fps with slower pixel respons time, so I was wondering if its playable on a modern LED TV with faster pixel respons time (but not as fast as OLED).

 

[Cyan]

when playing games like Age of Mythology 30fps is perfectly okay. That's what I do on my 4K screen -sometimes using Lossless Scaling to double the framerate-. Is 4ms fast enough for a LED TV (VA)? My 165Hz 1440p monitor runs games at 30fps just fine, it's not the best experience as you might expect but playable. LED framerates, CRT framerates, whatever, the difference is always noticeable on a LED TV even if you go from 60fps to 165fps, on most games. There are certain games where the impact is lessened. Vampire Survivors is a game where 165fps vs 60 vs 30fps makes a HUGE difference, when many things "flow" in the screen.

Back into Age of Mythology it's a pity that Digital Foundry doesn't make a video on it. The game supports Raytracing and it brings your GPU to its knees.

 

[RobertR1]

With a 4090 oc’d, whatever max is with graphics turned up and dlss quality and FG at 3440x1440 for SP games. With FG, anything below 100fps starts to feel laggy but thankfully so for the 4090 performs well above that.

For fast twitch and online shooters tune to get close to the panel refresh of 175hz which generally just means use don’t use RT and use DLSS quality.

If it’s a low intensity game, I’ll use dldsr for super sampling.

For VR 90hz minimum without reprojection

 

[Cyan]

Yes, 30 fps on OLED is terrible because of the super fast pixel respons time. I have no trouble with 30 fps with slower pixel respons time, so I was wondering if its playable on a modern LED TV with faster pixel respons time (but not as fast as OLED).

https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/wzg3tx/why_does_30_fps_on_crts_look_so_much_smoother

 

[davis.anthony]

Yes, 30 fps on OLED is terrible because of the super fast pixel respons time.

So why does CRT, that has response time that's faster than OLED have no issues with 30fps?

 

[ZebMacahan]

So why does CRT, that has response time that's faster than OLED have no issues with 30fps?

I dont know, but playing old games on CRT never gave me headaches.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So why does CRT, that has response time that's faster than OLED have no issues with 30fps?

I was reading this just the other day.

Reddit: Why does 30 fps on CRTs look so much smoother than LCDs?

The first factor is response time which is how fast a pixel changes from one colour to another. In LCD they are crystals that need to move physically to change the colour of the pixel (it acts as colour filter of the backlight used in LCD). CRTs and OLEDs don't have backlights and create their own light at every pixel thus don't need moving chrystals to filter anything and so their response times are instant and something LCDs just can not match. But even in OLED and CRTs, CRTS appear much smoother because of the way they display images. In OLEDs and LCDs, the while panel displays the current frame the whole time while in CRTs a beam of time goes from top left of the screen to bottom right in rows. We don't see it as a beam of light because it happens so fast (60 times per second for a 60hz display) and instead see it as a complete image. The thing to note is what is being displayed isn't the complete image but a small streak of light that goes left to right while the whole rest of the display is black (off) and that being black part is what gives it that unbeatable motion clarity (it's just down to how our monkey brain sees things). OLEDs can mimic this to some extent by inserting a black frame after every regular frame which can help to a great extent but still can't completely match a CRT (also it kinda cuts the brightness in half because half the time the screen is just off)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Although one thing no-one talks of when reminiscing about CRTs is the flicker. Yes, we filtered it out as we watched, but it was pretty bad especially on large TVs, and even caused folk headaches.

 

[davis.anthony]

Reddit

I wonder if you could you program an OLED to behave like a CRT.

On a CRT there's a fast but very much present (and natural) phosphor roll off, which it what contributes to CRT's motion handling.

This means that unlike BFI on an OLED, a CRT doesn't go instantly to black, but it's a 'slow' transition to black.

As OLED's are fast I wonder if you could program the sub-pixels on an OLED to mimic this phosphor roll off and give OLED a more CRT like motion handling.

I also don't notice the flicker on the my Phillips CRT (576i at 50Hz) and I didn't notice it a few years ago when I have a CRT monitor.

I imagine it's like the rainbow effect on DLP projectors, some people see it, some people don't.

 

[Daozang]

I was reading this just the other day.

Reddit: Why does 30 fps on CRTs look so much smoother than LCDs?



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Although one thing no-one talks of when reminiscing about CRTs is the flicker. Yes, we filtered it out as we watched, but it was pretty bad especially on large TVs, and even caused folk headaches.

Yup...
The difference between a 60hz CRT and a 100hz CRT was huge in that regard.

 

[ZebMacahan]

I was reading this just the other day.

Reddit: Why does 30 fps on CRTs look so much smoother than LCDs?



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Although one thing no-one talks of when reminiscing about CRTs is the flicker. Yes, we filtered it out as we watched, but it was pretty bad especially on large TVs, and even caused folk headaches.

Does that means CTRs have slower pixel response time than OLEDs?

 

[davis.anthony]

Does that means CTRs have slower pixel response time than OLEDs?

CRT's don't actually have 'pixels'

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I wonder if you could you program an OLED to behave like a CRT.

As OLED's are fast I wonder if you could program the sub-pixels on an OLED to mimic this phosphor roll off and give OLED a more CRT like motion handling.

Hmmm, interesting. You could also strobe more than one beam to reduce flicker.

I also don't notice the flicker on the my Phillips CRT (576i at 50Hz) and I didn't notice it a few years ago when I have a CRT monitor.

I imagine it's like the rainbow effect on DLP projectors, some people see it, some people don't.

Yes. Also it could depend on environment, what you're showing, whether looking head on or your periphery. Oddly some units also just seemed more prone to be flickery.

 

[Daozang]

Oddly some units also just seemed more prone to be flickery.

It could also be a problem induced by a fluorescent light in the same space.
I've seen them induce either a downward wave, or a flicker...

 

[Davros]

but a small streak of light that goes left to right while the whole rest of the display is black (off)

Thats not strictly true, when not being hit by the electron gun pixels were not black they had a decay time i.e: they would slowly (relatively speaking ) fade to black
edit: already brought up

 

[Cyan]

This means that unlike BFI on an OLED, a CRT doesn't go instantly to black, but it's a 'slow' transition to black.

yup, BFI on my 4K QLED -not OLED- TV is quite noticeable, specially during the transition to very bright to dark colours and sometimes you can see the flickering. Still black frame insertion works super well with youtube or any other video content.

BFI also works ok with 30fps games on my TV, specially when you don't rotate the camera. If the camera follows your character from behind with no lateral rotation, say in Elden Ring, those 30fps can easily look and feel very similar to 60fps. However if you rotate the camera BFI starts to break apart, at least on my TV.