The Last of Us (Part) 2 [PS4]

[Deleted member 11852]

OMG, Joel is such a piece of shit. He is everything that is wrong with humanity wrapped up in one human being. Someone so selfish that he is not only willing to sacrifice the human race for his own wants and needs but he also lies to the one person he supposedly loves.

Yes, Joel puts his own feelings above everything else, but..

Spoiler

1. The fireflies are fishy
2. Joel noticed the doctors were pretty sketchy. Maybe they not even real doctors. They jumped directly to methods that kills the patient / source of cure. Instead of taking sample / biopsy, etc. He saw that there are actually many "ellies" before ellie.
3. Thus Joel saved ellie, and hides this fact from her. Joel doesn't want to destroy ellie's dream by telling her that the fireflies actually are more like a cult with butcher doctors.

There is this, which was very much my take. I do not agree that Joel doesn't love Ellie. The game takes place over a year and the game is about that relationship developing. It's more about that than surviving and killing infected. Joel, adopts a parent role and most parents will do anything for their kids. Adults protecting juveniles is a common trait in most mammals, it's why it's why most adults will comfort a crying child. Furthermore, adults 'adopting' orphaned juveniles is another common trait of most mammals. It is the basic nature of most of us.

Frankly, I would kill for my kid. No question, no second thought, logic and rationality go out the window if my kid is genuinely threatened. If I was in Joel's shoes, that story would have played out the same.

Your point is not not invalid and I kind of address the selfishness aspect when looking at Polygon's review, where they seemingly wanted a happy, or at leas a less dark/bleak/depressing story rather than a truer depiction of how dark people can be. The Last of Us's ending is generally considered one of the best endings in gaming for a reason and part of that is because it is so divisive.

 

[Nesh]

Incoming is a rant that I'm pretty sure most here won't agree with or like, but OMG watching the end of the Last of Us again pisses me off to no ends.

[rant on]

Man, just watched the ending of Last of Us again in prep for part 2.

OMG, Joel is such a piece of shit. He is everything that is wrong with humanity wrapped up in one human being. Someone so selfish that he is not only willing to sacrifice the human race for his own wants and needs but he also lies to the one person he supposedly loves.

But he doesn't love Ellie. Ellie is just a symbol of the daughter he lost. And in his selfishness that memory is what allows him to condemn the human race to destruction. Allows him to LIE to Ellie and BETRAY everything she believes in.

I know it's too much to ask, but god I hope Joel dies a horrible painful death in Last of Us part 2. My god that kind of person does not deserve to live. AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH. /rant.

Joel could have been the better man, like the woman he killed. But no, his selfishness shows off all the evils of the human race. Self centered desires allowing one to do evil. And he KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. And he knows he's lying to Ellie and spitting on everything she is as a person.

Ellie is just an object, a representation of a memory, to him. Ellie isn't a person to him. Just a object to make him feel better about himself and fuck anything that Ellie might want.

Joel can rot in hell. Fuck him for treating Ellie like he does.

[rant off]

All of that aside, kudos to the devs for a great story and getting me to feel THIS much vitriol at an imaginary video game character though.

Really interested to see how part 2 plays out.

Regards,
SB

I interpreted it somewhat similarly, but I see it also from his perspective. He got attached to her and certainly his daughter's past played a role with it.
He saw both Ellie and his daughter in Ellie. She wasn't just an "object" replacement of his daughter. He lost one loved one, and he was going to lose another again. The pain of reliving the past was too strong.
He would either do a great sacrifice by letting his loved one die again and add another psychological burden on top of his old loss, or he would do the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of keeping someone he loves alive and get some catharsis from that.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I loved how the characters changed during the game and that's actually why I think it's an awesome game(like God of War and HZD).

Spoiler

When Joel meets Ellie, he is very much opposed to having to deliver her for and to the Fireflies. Not because he is protective but rather that he might have better things to do, guns to sell etc. That first scene when they are alone, they are so far apart and don't want to interact with each other. I could see the same thing happening in real life if two strangers met in that type of world.

It's also at this point that Tess is likely the daughter surrogate as she would be a similar age as his daughter, if his daughter had survived. But he also does know that she is not is daughter.
He is then tasked by Tess to deliver Ellie to the Fireflies and is still reluctant to the idea. As the two start off they are still not close, having just met I can still see why.

However by the middle of the game they have grown closer having to rely on each other, she being able to get over things and into small spaces and him being the one with the gun and power to fight off the army and zombies. But they still don't have a strong bond and it's definitely not a father/daughter bond but the relationship is better and even gives her a gun to protect herself. At this point they meet Sam and Henry, I think this starts the point at which they actually become close as Henry initally believes Ellie is Joel's daughter. Seeing the relationship between Henry and Sam is likely a the trigger for Joel to start being protective of Ellie and not just a job. I think the ending of Henry and Sam then is a point where it hit Joel in the guts that he might actually start having feelings for Ellie as a surrogate daughter. Which also explains why he decides to leave Ellie with his brother, he doesn't want to have the responsibility of feeling for her and then deliverying her to the Fireflies and losing her and his emotions. Whoever at the end of that scene with her reading a book about girls only having to worry about what boys they like and what movies to see is the turning point where he decides to protect her at any cost and deliver her to the Fireflies.

When he gets hurt though, she is the one to provide for him and when he eventually awakes up and goes looking for her, realises she is in great danger. When he eventually finds her wailing away at a dead David, I think the father/daughter transformation is about complete. He will literally do anything and kill anyone to protect Ellie.

So when he and Ellie eventually land into the Fireflies and he gets told that Ellie will have to die to get the cure, I think he's parental role is, "Hell no fucking way!" even if it would mean no cure for mankind. This in itself feels very realistic to me.

GoW had a similar change with characters and is why the games were received so well imo. It's not about the graphics and gameplay but the story the game tells. HZD is another great story and has a lot of character development happening and even Day Gone had a good story and people really liked that too. It's why XBox games have failed to show up as quality games. MS now have something with Hellblade 2 but Halo Infinite is likely to be another FPS shooter game with the usual story and no character development. GoW5 had a little character development it being the son and not the father this time around but still stuck with the usual, go here, fight this, go there, fight that mentality. MS need to grow the TLoU/GoW/HZD type of games if they want to get recognised as a great game developer.

Ellie in the TLoU2 will already have character development going for it as we all know that she changes almost immediately at the beginning of the game. Whether you like or dislike the darkness of it and where it takes Ellie, the overall story however is likely to be excellent and it helps that the graphics and gameplay look topnotch as well.

 

[ultragpu]

OK guys Gamersyde has some stupid high quality media, go watch The Forest clip and holy shit it is quite easily THE best looking current gen game bar far. The game actually looks better than Kena if you ask me. And in terms of foliage density and quality, except Horizon Forbidden West, this actually takes second place.
https://www.gamersyde.com/video_the...rest_no_motion_blur_ps4_pro_4k_-44992_en.html
https://www.gamersyde.com/news_our_videos_of_the_last_of_us_part_ii-21676_en.html

Naughty Dog is insane, like seriously wtf.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Mod note : When ultragpu or anyone else says, "looks better," they are actually saying, "is more pleasing/impressive to my eye." Please don't attempt to qualify "the world's best looking game."

 

[ultragpu]

You know DF and the majority of gamers, media sites are gonna side with me on this one right Shifty?

 

[AlNom]

The artists have done a phenomenal job of creating a cohesively shaded environment.

 

[orangpelupa]

That's amazing indeed! Using photo mode and capturing the nature would be neat.

Hmm, to stay awake til midnight for TLOU to get unlocked or sleep asap and wake up early.

 

[JPT]

Incoming is a rant that I'm pretty sure most here won't agree with or like, but OMG watching the end of the Last of Us again pisses me off to no ends.

I think the ending is interesting in it self, since it poses a very hard question to answer, with probably no right answer.

Do we sacrifice the few in order to save the many?

Whatever your answer is, its usually a debate that is hard. And I thought it interesting that ND actually posed that question. And it means each one of us, will have version/appreciation of the end of the game.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You know DF and the majority of gamers, media sites are gonna side with me on this one right Shifty?

I actually loved the clouds moving across the mountain in the background in the video trailer from two weeks ago. I looked so real.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Wow I'm sorry but you obviously don't have children. I was wanting Joel to do exactly what he did as soon as he found out she had to die. So I suppose I'm exactly what's wrong with humanity.

I do, but I'm not the sort of parent that commits evil for their children. Joel is the type of person that would protect his son if his son raped someone because his child is more important than other people. Joel is the type of person that would protect their children if they went around killing and torturing other people's dogs. Joel is the type of parent that would protect his children if they went out and killed other children.

Fuck Joel and parents like that. That isn't loving their children. That's them treating their children as objects representing what they want their child to be. Just like Joel wants Ellie to be something she isn't. Hence why he could lie to her. Why he would willing shit all over her dreams. Why he would treat her like he did in the first game. Fuck Joel and parents like him.

If he truly loved her, he wouldn't have lied to her even though he knows she won't like that he shat all over what she wanted more than anything in her life. But he was afraid she wouldn't want to stick around if he did that. So not only is he an evil shit, he's a coward. Fuck him.

Why do I hate him so much? I hate him so much because I saw these things first hand in a neighbor I had when I was a child. Nicest parents that could be. But they allowed their child to commit unspeakable acts of evil on other people and other animals because they could only see their child in terms of what they wanted to see in their child.

Just like Joel doesn't see Ellie. He see's his dead daughter. That's what he wants Ellie to be. That's why he lies to her. That's why he shits on her dreams. That's why he doesn't REALLY give a shit for Ellie. And that's why he condemns the human race.

The start of TLOU Part 2 is sooooo satisfying. Do NOT read this if you don't want spoilers. Really REALLY do not read this if you don't want spoilers, it's a major point in the story.

Once more. DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS.

Spoiler

YES! Joel got what he deserved

Even more satisfying seeing streamers understanding why that happened and why Joel deserved it

The one I'm watching right now, CohhCarnage, has 2 little children and he was wondering if the devs would go with something like this considering the atrocities that Joel committed at the end of TLOU 1.

Regards,
SB

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Game store opens at 8am tomorrow, will pick up my copy then and install when I get home. Am working tomorrow but I am sure I can work around that.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

OK guys Gamersyde has some stupid high quality media, go watch The Forest clip and holy shit it is quite easily THE best looking current gen game bar far. The game actually looks better than Kena if you ask me. And in terms of foliage density and quality, except Horizon Forbidden West, this actually takes second place.
https://www.gamersyde.com/video_the...rest_no_motion_blur_ps4_pro_4k_-44992_en.html
https://www.gamersyde.com/news_our_videos_of_the_last_of_us_part_ii-21676_en.html

Is it my imagination or have they taken down the videos? They might have been taking a hammering as the downloads was so slow.

Also Alanah Pearce is currently doing the full gameplay on her channel. Not watching that though.

 

[Xbat]

Joel is the type of person that would protect his son if his son raped someone because his child is more important than other people.

No just no this is a completely bullshit comparison.
Ellie is just a kid, eleven I think.

 

[ultragpu]

Is it my imagination or have they taken down the videos? They might have been taking a hammering as the downloads was so slow.

Also Alanah Pearce is currently doing the full gameplay on her channel. Not watching that though.

They're still up. But yeah do yourself a favor don't watch anything any more till you have the game, you know to get the FULL FAT experience.

 

[DieH@rd]

Even with my ropey ~13Mb/s DSL connection, the ~80Gb download, which started Friday morning, destroyed my ability to work from home so was paused until about 4pm, then resumed had finished by the early hours of Saturday. It's just there no, taunting me with that timer countdown.

Best case scenario is I get a chance to play Friday evening but life is complicated currently so it may be latter.

I feel your pain, I have the same connection speed.

Only in my case, there is no hope for upgrade.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Bamalam's thoughts on "The Last Of Us" which he finished playing on the weekend. Pretty good I think. It was his first playthrough and he has high praise as did the rest of the world at the time the game came out.

 

[dobwal]

OMG, Joel is such a piece of shit. He is everything that is wrong with humanity wrapped up in one human being. Someone so selfish that he is not only willing to sacrifice the human race for his own wants and needs but he also lies to the one person he supposedly loves.

But he doesn't love Ellie. Ellie is just a symbol of the daughter he lost. And in his selfishness that memory is what allows him to condemn the human race to destruction. Allows him to LIE to Ellie and BETRAY everything she believes in.

I know it's too much to ask, but god I hope Joel dies a horrible painful death in Last of Us part 2. My god that kind of person does not deserve to live. AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH. /rant.

Joel could have been the better man, like the woman he killed. But no, his selfishness shows off all the evils of the human race. Self centered desires allowing one to do evil. And he KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. And he knows he's lying to Ellie and spitting on everything she is as a person.

Ellie is just an object, a representation of a memory, to him. Ellie isn't a person to him. Just a object to make him feel better about himself and fuck anything that Ellie might want.

Joel can rot in hell. Fuck him for treating Ellie like he does.

[rant off]

All of that aside, kudos to the devs for a great story and getting me to feel THIS much vitriol at an imaginary video game character though.

Really interested to see how part 2 plays out.

Regards,
SB

If you do a bit of searching in the game you find out that the Fireflies have found a dozen or more of the immune and all have died in Fireflies attempts to save the world.

And so what if it’s his lost daughter that allows him treat Ellie as if she is his flesh and blood?

So yes, Joel was being selfish. But there is no guarantee that the FireFlies would have saved the world. In fact their willingness to kill the immune is hardly ethical and really shortsighted.

The FireFlies could have kept alive the 12 or more immune and did research of whether offspring of the immune exhibited the same resistance against the infection. If so, they would have had the seeds to restart humanity.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Tlou is heavens feel or nier essentially.

The only difference is that joel is not a good person willing to overlook bad things or justify bad actions. Hes lived in this shit world and has been transformed by it. So when his decision to protect a loved one ends in a massacre, thats just the expected outcome. We see through the whole game that he doesnt really care about saving the world and that remains consistent till the end.

Although i dont care about him as a character(indeed i thought tlou was a poor mans nier in particular) i get what the team was going for. Maybe if i had not played games that had similar concepts before that i would have been more affected

 

[techuse]

I cant believe how impressive this game looks.