No DX12 Software is Suitable for Benchmarking *spawn*

[DavidGraham]

Isn't that true basically for all hardware? One or the other feature is not supported and of the supported ones, one or more are at tiers below the maximum.

Consoles don't support Raster Order View or Conservative Rasterization (All of GCN don't). On the other hand, Maxwell2/Pascal support them, but they have one lower tier for a subset of Tiled Resources (Resource Binding), and an upper tear for another subset of it. but never the less still end up supporting it. Intel's Skylake supports all features with the the latest Tiers.

So consoles end up having the least DX12 features.

 

[CSI PC]

You willing to count Doom on Nvidia hardware? Feels a bit more laggy, stutters intermittently due to DXGI sync issue and thus runs not really faster than OpenGL.

edit:
My colleague's article is now live: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Doom-2016-Spiel-56369/Specials/Vulkan-Benchmarks-Frametimes-1202711/
.

Great article and analysis.
Sadly the memes mindset is that Nvidia is deliberately lowering visuals for performance gains with that sync issue (just as we also had with the visual issue in AoTS that did not affect performance), nice to see the adjusted benchmark as well.
Got to love PresentMon for digging into issues.
Thanks

 

[Ext3h]

You willing to count Doom on Nvidia hardware? Feels a bit more laggy, stutters intermittently due to DXGI sync issue and thus runs not really faster than OpenGL.

edit:
My colleague's article is now live: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Doom-2016-Spiel-56369/Specials/Vulkan-Benchmarks-Frametimes-1202711/

Is your colleague actually saying that he considers the OpenGL style triple buffering (or "fast sync" how Nvidia likes to call it now) the cause for the perceivable input lag?
And not perhaps the still active desktop composition? Which inevitably adds another frame of latency on top? (Or was that 2 frames for composition? Don't remember.)

The OpenGL version ran in exclusive full screen mode. The Vulkan one didn't on NV hardware. It's not a problem with only your setup, other reviewers encountered the same anomaly.

The perceivable stutters? Sure. They are certainly caused by the nice interference between FPS and refresh frequency you managed to create at 4k. Not so much because the dropped frame is missing, but because the unrecorded latency from present to scan out drops from +16ms to +0ms from one frame to the next, due to poor frame pacing.

PS: Does anyone know how to include the actual vsync blank timestamps in the PresentMon output? So you can actually specify time to scan out, and not just time to present?

 

[CarstenS]

I don't think so. But that's a hell of a lot of questions. I suggest you might ask him yourself for most of them?

edit: Sorry for initial brevity, this sounds quite unfriendly as it stands. That was not my intention. I know the Ext3h speaks german, that's why I recommended to ask the author of our website's article directly. And there actually WERE a whole lot of questions in that post - too much for me to answer in passing.

 

[pharma]

Interesting that an earlier Nvidia driver works better with Vulkan than the Geforce 368+ versions.

You might want to try backing up to driver version 365.19. With versions 368.xx, we've seen memory leaks, poor frame rates, and frame rates that decline over time.

https://forums.khronos.org/showthre...on-NVIDIA-System?p=40441&viewfull=1#post40441

 

[Malo]

It's rather a funny situation with Vulkan and Nvidia considering Nv was the system used to demonstrate Vulkan on Doom.

 

[CarstenS]

Yet another problem with DX12:
Deus Ex Mankind won't ship with DX12 at launch:
http://steamcommunity.com/games/337000/announcements/detail/930377969893113169
"Contrary to our previous announcement, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, which is shipping on August 23rd, will unfortunately not support DirectX 12 at launch. We have some extra work and optimizations to do for DX12, and we need more time to ensure we deliver a compelling experience"

So, beware or at least be aware of intial launch reviews telling you this and that about classy DX12 implementations and performances.

 

[CSI PC]

So the only 'successful' implementation to date is still Ashes of the Singularity, which was purpose built only for PC.
I wonder if part of the issue is multi-platform AAA games and the way the development teams (R&D team-game development team-porting team) and also game-rendering engine is structured - Duex Ex Mankind game is using Dawn engine that is based upon the older Glacier 2 engine.
The Glacier 2 engine I think was used for Hitman 2016, which did nothing for DX12 and at times ran pretty poorly on Nvidia hardware.
Importantly some are suggesting the TressFX/Purehair is missing from the DX11 version of Mankind Divided, but that was included in Rise of the Tomb Raider in both DX11 and DX12 (different team ported though - Crystal Dynamics); if it is missing maybe more integrated into the DX12 rendering engine/post processing or just lacking the time-resources-experience in porting?

It will be interesting to see the 1st AAA multi-platform games using engines such as UE4 and Unity 5 and how they get on with both multi-platform release and DX12.
Cheers

 

[Ike Turner]

Yet another problem with DX12:
Deus Ex Mankind won't ship with DX12 at launch:
http://steamcommunity.com/games/337000/announcements/detail/930377969893113169
"Contrary to our previous announcement, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, which is shipping on August 23rd, will unfortunately not support DirectX 12 at launch. We have some extra work and optimizations to do for DX12, and we need more time to ensure we deliver a compelling experience"

So, beware or at least be aware of intial launch reviews telling you this and that about classy DX12 implementations and performances.

What is the "Problem" ? As long as the implementation isn't subpar like Tomb Raider, a 2 weeks wait isn't going to have any world chattering consequences. The Doom Vulkan path came out 2 months after release. (ironically 90% of the idiots asking Eidos/Nixxes to ditch DX12 for Vulkan are running NVidia GPUs and thus barely benefited from it in Doom at all..but hell..idiots gonna be idiots..)

 

[CarstenS]

Wrong question to ask me. I am not the developer what the problem is. I am not programming Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Or are you calling me an idiot? Then you're definitely right, given the ancient greek roots of the term. ;D edit: Ah, you dont', got it now

I agree, though, that a 2 weeks wait does not (or maybe even longer) mean much, but whether or not visual quality and/or performance will be the same for launch reviews (which maybe might include DX12...) compared to what the final patch will bring is going to be the important question. And I'm not talking about driver optimizations but game code.

 

[Clukos]

People are probably asking for Vulkan because they don't want to have to update to Windows 10.

 

[Anarchist4000]

I'd have to imagine the Vulkan demand is entirely because of the Win10 lock-in.

As for Dues Ex, for a title that has been advertised as DX12 for so long, what would change in two weeks that would really make it better? I thought they already pushed it back 6 months or so? Didn't think SM6.0 was releasing in that timeframe, which may have made the DX12 paths significantly easier to port from console. Really hope this isn't just to get DX11 benchmarks out the door first.

It will be interesting to see the 1st AAA multi-platform games using engines such as UE4 and Unity 5 and how they get on with both multi-platform release and DX12.

While I can't speak for their developers, both engines still seem a little ways off on DX12/Vulkan beyond mobile. I checked the other day and both still seemed to be rewriting the engines to be more multi-threaded with a strong emphasis on "rewriting the engine". I'd really hope they're looking at a Vulkan foundation with the ability to use DX12 and ditching DX11/OGL just to simplify everything.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So the only 'successful' implementation to date is still Ashes of the Singularity, which was purpose built only for PC.
I wonder if part of the issue is multi-platform AAA games and the way the development teams (R&D team-game development team-porting team) and also game-rendering engine is structured - Duex Ex Mankind game is using Dawn engine that is based upon the older Glacier 2 engine.
The Glacier 2 engine I think was used for Hitman 2016, which did nothing for DX12 and at times ran pretty poorly on Nvidia hardware.
Importantly some are suggesting the TressFX/Purehair is missing from the DX11 version of Mankind Divided, but that was included in Rise of the Tomb Raider in both DX11 and DX12 (different team ported though - Crystal Dynamics); if it is missing maybe more integrated into the DX12 rendering engine/post processing or just lacking the time-resources-experience in porting?

It will be interesting to see the 1st AAA multi-platform games using engines such as UE4 and Unity 5 and how they get on with both multi-platform release and DX12.
Cheers

Yeah it's unfortunate that they have an internally built engine with a lot of focus put on Dx12 but it wasn't ready in time for Deus Ex: MD. Not surprising, of course, as Deus Ex: MD started development well before Dx12 was finalized.

A lot of studios seem to be having problems doing a good "bolt on" addition of Dx12 onto a Dx9/10/11 engine. At this point we can safely view any currently released game with Dx12 features, except perhaps AOTS, as purely technology experiments from developers.

It'll be far more illuminating once games start being released with engines that have had Dx12 in mind from the start of development. What will be interesting is if any developer takes the plunge and uses Dx12 as the main render target and then have Dx9/10/11 paths that attempt to render as much of it as possible or if they'll play it safe and use a Dx9/10/11 base and just attempt to add on Dx12 features.

I'm guessing they'll play it safe as only Pascal and GCN appear to support Dx12 well. Maxwell 2 can probably get by. But anything older than Maxwell 2 for Nvidia is unlikely to do well with games using Dx12 as a baseline.

If history is anything to go by. It'll be about at least 2-3 years before we have a game released on an engine where Dx12 is the primary render path. Then again that may be different this time around, as Dx11 never really had a chance to be considered for a primary render path until the new consoles came out.

Regards,
SB

 

[Razor1]

What is the "Problem" ? As long as the implementation isn't subpar like Tomb Raider, a 2 weeks wait isn't going to have any world chattering consequences. The Doom Vulkan path came out 2 months after release. (ironically 90% of the idiots asking Eidos/Nixxes to ditch DX12 for Vulkan are running NVidia GPUs and thus barely benefited from it in Doom at all..but hell..idiots gonna be idiots..)

Sub par lol, its worse than sub par.

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/deus-ex-mankind-divided-test-gpu

Its just a resource hog all the way around!

 

[Kaotik]

Sub par lol, its worse than sub par.

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/deus-ex-mankind-divided-test-gpu

Its just a resource hog all the way around!

Worth noting is that they're not using final version of the game, nor DX12 renderer, since the is going to launch next week without DX12 renderer, which gets patched in couple weeks later.
Don't judge it on some earlier build.

 

[Razor1]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Deus-.../Specials/Benchmarks-Test-DirectX-12-1204575/

and another.

Kaotik, this game went gold that means there won't be any changes to the code base for people that buying this game till another patch is issued.

About the Dx12 path, seems to be fairly broken which is what the next patch is supposed to address in 2 weeks, I don't expect it to be done in two weeks looking at these numbers though.

It looks to be another poorly done console part for the time being. Saying that drivers probably will help out too though.

 

[homerdog]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Deus-.../Specials/Benchmarks-Test-DirectX-12-1204575/

and another.

Kaotik, this game went gold that means there won't be any changes to the code base for people that buying this game till another patch is issued.

About the Dx12 path, seems to be fairly broken which is what the next patch is supposed to address in 2 weeks, I don't expect it to be done in two weeks looking at these numbers though.

It looks to be another poorly done console part for the time being. Saying that drivers probably will help out too though.

Wow this game in amazingly unoptimized. DX12 slower all around...ftw?

 

[lanek]

Wow this game in amazingly unoptimized. DX12 slower all around...ftw?

For what i have understand they have not been able to test it with DX12.

First Benchmark Results using the DirectX 11 API, we wanted you but to set the mood not withheld. Side note: In the middle of the benchmarks required Deus Ex for an update, we aufspielten immediately. After the upgrade, which comes very close to probably the release version,
DirectX 12 can no longer be activated in the game launcher, the option is grayed out. The 21: 9 support is still flawed.

Honestly, if the developper have decided to delay the Dx12 version, better to wait that they officially release it before conclude allready too fast about it. Game can become gold weeks, month before it goes on release, they have surely need more time for optimize it, and as they dont wanted to delay the retail release too much, they have decided to launch only the DX11 versions. I will wait to see what happend when it is released.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Game being gold only means that's the copy being sent to the distribution channels because it passed QA in terms of stability, bugs, etc.
It doesn't exempt the game from getting day-one patches (or prior to day one, e.g. patches in time for reviewers) with significant changes, like many games before.

Unnecessary disclaimer for raging anti-fans:
- I'm not saying there will be a day 1 patch for deus ex, only that games going gold in the age of digital distribution on the PC and always connected consoles doesn't mean the same as it did in the times of disc-based distribution.

 

[Razor1]

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Benchmarked: What Do You Need To Run It?

Ya need a lot to run this game lol, damn. Runs like a dog with three legs