The Order: 1886

[RenegadeRocks]

Why do my movies have black bars then? I was under the impression movies do this because they need the wide angle, and the need for more vertical area was the reason why Avengers has an aspect ratio 1.85:1 instead of 2.39:1 like in most movies.

Shifty is saying we can have the same FOV with 16:9 aspect ratio, which is true. But what u said was we cannot have this aspect ratio without black bars, which is also true. SHifty made it sound sa if u are talking about FOV , not Aspect ratio.

 

[DieH@rd]

Why do my movies have black bars then? I was under the impression movies do this because they need the wide angle, and the need for more vertical area was the reason why Avengers has an aspect ratio 1.85:1 instead of 2.39:1 like in most movies.

Its the choice of director. Joss Whedon really likes 16:9.

 

[Cjail]

Letterboxing
Just in case.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The screenshots we've seen so far suggests a wider FOV. At least that's what it looks like to me.

Even if true, as I say they could still draw the top and bottom of the scenes without affecting that horizontal FOV.

Why do my movies have black bars then?

That's aspect ratio. They are projected onto a wider screen because human vision has a slightly wider FOV than vertical, plus there's nothing of interest to focus on in the sky or at our feet so those spaces are more filtered, hence the wide screen is a more natural fit.

FOV is how many degrees around a person they can see. This FOV is generated within the game by rendering options. See here. That FOV can then be cropped to any aspect as the window into that scene. Taking those BF3 examples just linked to, you could add borders top and bottom to make the aspect more widescreen, without changing the horizontal FOV, but of course reducing the vertical FOV.

Ergo, you don't need a wide screen aspect to accommodate a wider FOV. In a typical scene though, a wider FOV will just fill the sky and ground with boringness, which doesn't make for good viewing. The 90 degree example above has a lot of wasted space top and bottom. Cropping to the relevant band of detail in the centre makes sense both artistically and technically. I've heard PC gamers talk of the annoyance of 1080p/16:9 monitors as it restricts their vertical FOV and for some games that's definitely a disadvantage.

 

[Gitaroo]

Can argue that everything should say 4:3 since even a lot of movies are shot that way then cropped later. RE4 can expand to 4:3 also etc etc, the fact is that RAD chose that FOV and that aspect ratio, the end.

 

[DieH@rd]

2 weeks

 

[Globalisateur]

Why even an embargo on this game? They don't trust their own work?

There is no embargo with Infamous, we have seen a lot of 1080p gameplay videos already (and it looks great).

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Why even an embargo on this game? They don't trust their own work? There is no embargo with Infamous, we have seen a lot of 1080p gameplay videos already (and it looks great).

It's probably part of a larger marketing effort. You can get more effect, and generate more buzz with a concerted timed information explosion than just letting people drop dribs and drabs when they can be arsed.

 

[itch]

Maybe they are holding up info for print magazines?

 

[DieH@rd]

Why even an embargo on this game? They don't trust their own work?

2 week embargo is set because only EU journalist have seen the game. US journos have meetings set for next week. That way, everyone will get enough time to make best previews as they can.

BTW this is nothing new, a lot of games uses this tactics for coordinated release of previews. Only this time, expectations are sky high and info about timings has leaked.

Posted an ~hour ago:

 

[RudeCurve]

I hope the hype doesn't backfire if the gameplay doesn't look as good as everyone expects/hopes...

I like the art assets of what I've seen so far but there's a huge question mark about gameplay.

 

[dobwal]

Even if true, as I say they could still draw the top and bottom of the scenes without affecting that horizontal FOV.

That's aspect ratio. They are projected onto a wider screen because human vision has a slightly wider FOV than vertical, plus there's nothing of interest to focus on in the sky or at our feet so those spaces are more filtered, hence the wide screen is a more natural fit.

FOV is how many degrees around a person they can see. This FOV is generated within the game by rendering options. See here. That FOV can then be cropped to any aspect as the window into that scene. Taking those BF3 examples just linked to, you could add borders top and bottom to make the aspect more widescreen, without changing the horizontal FOV, but of course reducing the vertical FOV.

Ergo, you don't need a wide screen aspect to accommodate a wider FOV. In a typical scene though, a wider FOV will just fill the sky and ground with boringness, which doesn't make for good viewing. The 90 degree example above has a lot of wasted space top and bottom. Cropping to the relevant band of detail in the centre makes sense both artistically and technically. I've heard PC gamers talk of the annoyance of 1080p/16:9 monitors as it restricts their vertical FOV and for some games that's definitely a disadvantage.

Someone please explain FOV to me. When I look at your link, I just see 3 images taken at slightly different distances creating an illusion of a wider view.

Seems to me if you actually change the FOV in terms of a widening or lengthening (expanding the horizontal FOV) without distorting the edge imagery, you would also see a change in the size of the gun.

 

[RudeCurve]

There's really no such thing as wide FOV in games unless you're trying to simulate a type of lense which this game is supposedly doing. If you watch videos recorded from the popular GoPro cameras that's what a wide FOV lense looks like.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Someone please explain FOV to me. When I look at your link, I just see 3 images taken at slightly different distances creating an illusion of a wider view.

But they're not different distances! They're taken the same distance away. The wider angle means more of the environment is squeezed into the same amount of screen space so you see more, but everything's smaller.

This is an example from photography. http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Learn-And-Explore/Article/g3cu6o2o/understanding-focal-length.html

It shows the same image taken with different lenses. The photography world uses focal length though (with good reason as that's indepedent of aspect...), so a conversion to angular FOV in a 3:2 photograph is:

Length : degrees horizontal FOV
  18   :    90
  24   :    74
  35   :    54
  55   :    36
  85   :    23
  105  :    20

Now for any of those images, if the lens is kept the same but the film/sensor made wider, you'd record more of the detail in a wider picture. The focal length doesn't change, but the aspect would. If you were to take the 35mm lens and take a 16:9 photo with it, you'd get about the same detail horizontally as the 18mm photo. If you used a longer lens like the 85 mm, you'd need to shoot a panoramic shot to record all the buildings along the horizon in the 18 mm photo. However, you'd also lose all the top and bottom area.

So for a given focal length, yes, increasing horizontal size makes for a wider FOV, but focal length and 'sensor size' are completely selectable by the game. It's even used to effect, with wide-angle lenses with a wide FOV being used in games to simulate drunkeness and the like.
Camera settings in game include vertical size of the sensor. In the above photographs, we only see less of the sky and ground because the sensor is a 3:2 aspect. There literally isn't any film or CCD to record the info above and below what's recorded in the image. What we have in the Order is a horizontal FOV chosen by the camera setting, and a cinematic aspect chosen by the sensor or print setting. It's like printing a photo with a 55mm lens and then chopping off the top and bottom to make a super widescreen photo. It's the same horizontal FOV but reduced vertical FOV.

Seems to me if you actually change the FOV in terms of a widening or lengthening (expanding the horizontal FOV) without distorting the edge imagery, you would also see a change in the size of the gun.

You're right, it should, but guns in FPS are typically drawn on top of the main game. That's why you can walk up to someone's face and have their face fill the screen and your massive assault rifle be only as big as their nose.

 

[London Geezer]

It has to do with the way a scene is shown through camera lenses. The easy way to think of FOV is to think that a wider FOV is a zoomed out image, or shorter lens (all the way to ultra wide or fish view, which distort the image but take a lot of the scene on the frame) and the opposite being a 'zoomed in' image, or an image taken with a longer focus lens. There's really no easier way to explain it.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Just play a PC game and change the FOV settings to see what it is ! Or if u have Warframe on ur ps4, it lets u change it.
The name says it clealry: Field of View: more the FOV, bigger ur 'field' of view, you see more of the environment on screen.

Like when you see normally, you see a lot of stuff, now cup ur hands around your eyes, now u see a limited view. Thats decreased FOV in layman terms. You see less as ur FOV has been decreased.

The outer 'shape' of th eimage you see relates to the aspect ratio. Aspect ratio is just a ratio between the horizontal and vertical lenght of an image, basically the ratio of the size of the screen's height and breadth. It has nothing to do with what u see on screen, old SDTVs had a 4:3 aspect ratio, now HDtvs have 16:9 aspect ratio t, thats why they are longer sideways.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

You're right, it should, but guns in FPS are typically drawn on top of the main game. That's why you can walk up to someone's face and have their face fill the screen and your massive assault rifle be only as big as their nose.

Never seen that in any game. The gun always distorts correctly with fov.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Never seen that in any game. The gun always distorts correctly with fov.

I've not seen any games where the FOV is adjustable. In those games on PC, perhaps it is drawn correctly (but clearly not in the case of the examples above). Drawing of the gun is easily detectable in a game though. Just walk realy close to a wall. If the gun isn't moved out the way and it doesn't clip through the wall, then it's drawn over the top. That's the only way to get a player able to stand 6 inches from a wall with a two foot of gun extending in front of them (it's certainly possible to draw the gun with the same camera as the rest of the scene in a seperate pass).

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I've not seen any games where the FOV is adjustable.

What are you saying ? I remember setting the FOV was the first thing I did when I got a game on PC about up untill, say, 7-8 years back. Options from PC games started disappearing only in the previous gen of consoles. The gun gets distorted correctly and "elongated" a bit when the FOV opens up. Same for the character, if it is a TPS.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm saying that though games with an adjustable FOV exist, I have not seen them in action.