HTML5 on consoles

[AzBat]

Looks like the Xbox 360 will be getting HTML5 support with their upcoming dashboard update. Evidently that's how ESPN is bringing it's streaming content to the box.

Speaking at Appnation this morning, MLB Senior VP of Multimedia and Distribution Joe Inzerillo said that Microsoft made some concessions in getting ESPN3′s live-streaming video on its Xbox Live service. Xbox had previously required content providers to use its Smooth Streaming technology for live video, which Inzerillo said added significant cost to video delivery on the game console. He said:

“When [ESPN was] looking to get to that platform, Microsoft would generally want you to use Smooth technology for the Xbox. The problem is that the economics for someone who has content, live content, that they’re constantly putting out huge volumes of, like us or ESPN — the cost to deliver is a real huge issue.”

Inzerillo said Microsoft realized it didn’t make sense to create an Xbox-specific version of the stream. So instead, the software giant implemented HTML5 in its game console to enable content providers to reuse the same streams they were delivering for other connected devices. Now, Inzerillo said, “PlayStation, Roku, Boxee, Xbox, connected devices from LG — all of those folks are using the same fundamental streams.”

According to Inzerillo, Microsoft’s implementation of HTML5 alongside its own Smooth Streaming technology “could open the door” for MLB to introduce an Xbox 360 app for Opening Day next year. However, compared to Google’s Android or Apple’s iOS platforms, Microsoft doesn’t have a good framework or methodology for third parties to create applications for Xbox Live, so publishers have to strike a business relationship with Microsoft to get their content on the platform.

http://newteevee.com/2010/09/14/microsoft-switched-to-html5-for-espn3s-xbox-live-app/

The concession by Microsoft is very intriguing because it signals to content providers that they're really serious about providing their content on the 360. I wouldn't have expected them to go beyond their own streaming tech and Silverlight to support HTML5. Like the article mentioned it looks like Microsoft have now opened the door to more custom HTML5 apps like Major League Baseball. Who knows maybe the NFL will be next?

What about the PS3? It seems the new Netflix app on the PS3 might require HTML5 too. So Microsoft definitely won't be the only one. The PS3 could even get there first if the Netflix app comes out in October like it's been rumored.

The continuing evolution of these 4+ year old systems is amazing. At this rate we might never need new consoles.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Heh heh, the consoles have no choice but to follow suit. HTML5 is an important and powerful media platform. The last time I checked, PS3's web browser scored a grand total of 27/100 in ACID test. It may be sufficient for now, but may suffer in the future.

I believe NetFlix uses assorted streaming technologies to deliver content to PC, PS3, Xbox, iOS, etc. HTML5 support is not mandatory.

 

[archie4oz]

Well HTML5 just gives you the <video> tag now, however the bulk of the work is handled by javascript, CSS and the media playback abilities of the browser or OS. Personally I don't think it's all that big of a deal since both (PS3 and Xbox) are closed platforms anyways. However in the case of the PS3, anybody *can* target it since it does have a browser (of dubious qualities, but sites can be optimized for it) plus it does support Flash.

 

[patsu]

HTML5 is more than video tag. -_-

For pure streaming, I agree HTML5 is not the star of the show. It's H.264 and the streaming tech. The video tag can be easily mimic'ed with a built-in plugin, like PS3 web browser has a built-in Flash plugin.

And yes, PS3 web browser can be targeted easily by any web dev. But it will show its age within the next few years quickly if WebKit or Chrome dominate even the smallest devices. Some developers are giving up Flash for HTML5 too.

 

[NRP]

At this rate we might never need new consoles.

You heretic!!!

 

[AzBat]

I believe NetFlix uses assorted streaming technologies to deliver content to PC, PS3, Xbox, iOS, etc. HTML5 support is not mandatory.

It does currently, but I believe they may be moving to standardizing on HTML5 for the PS3 app. We'll find out pretty soon.

You heretic!!!

LOL

"She's a witch! Burn her!" LOL I didn't say I liked the idea. Eventually I'm going to want some pretty new hardware.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

It does currently, but I believe they may be moving to standardizing on HTML5 for the PS3 app. We'll find out pretty soon.

HTML5 does not impose video streaming protocol or format. You can use progressive download, Apple HTTP Live Streaming, RTSP/RTP or other protocols. The video format itself is most likely H.264, which PS3 is already using anyway.

What they may not want is to support yet more streaming protocols (e.g., MS's Smooth Streaming ?). They are already streaming to TVs and Blu-ray players, most likely can't change these existing mechanisms.

 

[KongRudi]

Do Opera update their Wii/DSi-browsers often?
Or is it still running Opera 9 compliance?

Don't expect any of the current consoles to run HTML5, but if anyone updates this, it's probably Opera for the Nintendo-platforms.

 

[patsu]

Why not ? We know not all WebKits are built equally. Ported WebKits on smaller devices score lower than the Mac/PC version. HTML5 support can be partial, like the NetFront one. It depends on whether Sony/someone paid for it.

 

[cthellis42]

Not sure how that matters in the slightest to the 360 unless MS actually changes its stance on bundling a browser, though. Certainly it might make a difference for some developers in creating dashboard apps, but that's--again--driven by publisher interests, whether it's between Microsoft and Netflix or ESPN or what-have-you. And if they have interest, they'd be able to deliver a dashboard app in ANY form to get it done.

Whether MS, Sony, or Nintendo, they've all had some minor app extensions, but nothing major or terribly interesting so far. What had to change first is for one of them to accept that they want to push their console as a platform and cede some control to the open market. HTML5 support and a rapid development/approval platform would be a real boon for something like Xbox Live Community Games for media/apps/utilities, but other than that...?

If serious media publishers worked out partnerships, HTML5 or the lack thereof really wouldn't matter. They would just make it happen. It could help smooth things over, sure, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.


Meanwhile, it would indeed be nice for Sony to get off their ass and put in a web browser that doesn't blow. 8-Þ You'd think they would have thought of that to launch alongside the Move, now that they'd also have a way better controller to operate one.

 

[upnorthsox]

Not sure how that matters in the slightest to the 360 unless MS actually changes its stance on bundling a browser, though. Certainly it might make a difference for some developers in creating dashboard apps, but that's--again--driven by publisher interests, whether it's between Microsoft and Netflix or ESPN or what-have-you. And if they have interest, they'd be able to deliver a dashboard app in ANY form to get it done.

Whether MS, Sony, or Nintendo, they've all had some minor app extensions, but nothing major or terribly interesting so far. What had to change first is for one of them to accept that they want to push their console as a platform and cede some control to the open market. HTML5 support and a rapid development/approval platform would be a real boon for something like Xbox Live Community Games for media/apps/utilities, but other than that...?

If serious media publishers worked out partnerships, HTML5 or the lack thereof really wouldn't matter. They would just make it happen. It could help smooth things over, sure, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.


Meanwhile, it would indeed be nice for Sony to get off their ass and put in a web browser that doesn't blow. 8-Þ You'd think they would have thought of that to launch alongside the Move, now that they'd also have a way better controller to operate one.

An optional browser was/is one of the thing i'm hoping for with plus, that might get me to subscribe. Makes sense to them and to me.

 

[patsu]

A built-in HTML5 engine may also be useful for sharing content between games and the net.

The HDTV has the biggest screen real estate, and yet one of the poorest web experiences. It's a huge waste !

 

[assen]

A built-in HTML5 engine may also be useful for sharing content between games and the net.

If you are referring to games using the built-in HTML5 engine, I doubt that would be possible due to memory/CPU constraints. The ESPN dashboard app isn't restricted to the OS reservation CPU/memory.

 

[patsu]

If you are referring to games using the built-in HTML5 engine, I doubt that would be possible due to memory/CPU constraints. The ESPN dashboard app isn't restricted to the OS reservation CPU/memory.

Using whose HTML5 engine ? And how does sharing work in your game ?

 

[Arwin]

If you are referring to games using the built-in HTML5 engine, I doubt that would be possible due to memory/CPU constraints. The ESPN dashboard app isn't restricted to the OS reservation CPU/memory.

Patsu just means that the HTML5 code could be used for showing web content in other context like a game help or news screen similar to how Burnout Paradise worked with the webbrowser API on the PS3.

 

[patsu]

Playstation Home uses the web browser in a primitive fashion to run ARG games also.

Unreal Tournament used the web browser in a ghastly fashion to browse and search for PS3 user mods.

If you can reach into the plugin or HTML5 object framework, more interesting concepts should be possible. The web page itself doesn't have to be complex.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Looks like the Xbox 360 will be getting HTML5 support with their upcoming dashboard update. Evidently that's how ESPN is bringing it's streaming content to the box.

What about the PS3? It seems the new Netflix app on the PS3 might require HTML5 too. So Microsoft definitely won't be the only one. The PS3 could even get there first if the Netflix app comes out in October like it's been rumored.

Tommy McClain

It appears you are correct; I've speculated on this since I heard that Netflix was going to Amazon servers and HTML5.

These Applications are using routines in PS3 firmware 3.5 which results in smaller sizes with their updated after PS3 firmware 3.5 release versions..

Hulu app decreased in size 13 megs after the PS3 firmware 3.5 release.
MLB app decreased in size from 16 meg to 7.6 meg
The Netflix application was not released to Canada until after 3.5.

The HULU application states that it is available on other platforms (using the same license) that support ONLY HTML5. (iOS)
Netflix director of Network development stated that NETFLIX was going to HTML5 and would have a dynamically updatable user interface

With an understanding of what HTML5 makes possible, the MLB application size of 7.6 megs, the functionality shown in the MLB application, the reduction in size of the applications after 3.5 and the statements in the articles I cite leads to the conclusion that a partially active webkit (probably WEBGL) was in PS3 firmware update 3.5 and is now in the PS3.

Tools in HTML5 can be called by other languages (native Apps), this includes javascript included in modern WEBKITs. Third party WEB providers can write applications using HTML5 tools and they will be usable on all platforms that support HTML5 with little change; possibly with just a Sony provided wrapper.

Example:

Sony provided wrapper for applications on XMB written in C+
HTML5 code/calls provided by HULU or Netflix. This code can be used unchanged by ALL platforms; probably uses Javascript See below:
Custom PS3 routines to support HTML5 pre 3.5. This disappears as routines are supported by PS3 firmware
End wrapper

In addition, incorporated in HTML5 and new WEBKITs is the ability to download javascript code and save to a protected file on the hardware platform (in this case the PS3 Hard Disk). This allows dynamic updating and on-the-fly User Interface changes. The MLB application at 7.6 megs must use this feature. Netflix's "dynamically updateable" user interface must use this feature also.

There was probably a push to get the tools in both consoles (Xbox - PS3) to support WEB applications (select portions of HTML5 and Javascript). Sony (PS3) will probably go on to finish a WEBGL browser for WEB games but we don't know about Xbox.

Anyone disagree? I really want any flaws in my reasoning exposed.

 

[jeff_rigby]

If you are referring to games using the built-in HTML5 engine, I doubt that would be possible due to memory/CPU constraints. The ESPN dashboard app isn't restricted to the OS reservation CPU/memory.

If the PS3 is getting a WEBGL browser I think it's possible. Few CPU constraints with direct calls to the PS3 OpenGL ES video routines. Memory will be an issue, virtual memory is available so with good decisions when writing the browser it might be possible.

 

[patsu]

There are 2 issues here. The UI + layout, and the streaming technology. Would be cool if the Hulu Plus app is written in HTML5 and is still well received. I remember people hated the original web-based PS Storefront.

The streaming tech is not specified in HTML5. NetFlix is probably using standard HTTP or RTSP based solutions, but I'm not sure.

If this is true, we should see http and https requests from the Hulu and NetFlux apps when we sniff the network.

 

[patsu]

I got invited into the Hulu Plus preview last week. Activated my account today after reading your post.

The Hulu Plus UI is optimized for DS3 because it uses the scrolling band concept similar to XMB. In my office, it's very quick (only 1-2 seconds delay for loading movie thumbnail list). I suppose at home, it will be significantly slower ?

Will see if I can capture the network requests later. Will also try Move compatibility.

EDIT: For a pointer-friendly UI, they need something like this:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/09/26/cedia-2010-hands-on-with-sony-av-receiver-remote-app/

It seems to be a DLNA iPad app that works with Sony's latest AV Receivers. If the same app can control my PS3s (via DLNA or at least RemotePlay), it'd compete my home media network. They should integrate HTML5 with these native technologies to make the experience seamless. Nevertheless, a HTML5 UI is a greatly welcomed start compared to the current web browser ! ^_^