Interesting Moore interview

[pipo]

Little heads up... Peter talks about Sega, MS, Rare et al.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/gamesinterviews.microsoft1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/playstation.microsoft

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/playstation.microsoft1

Edit: part 4 - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/gamesinterviews.microsoft

Edit: Final part - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/sep/11/gamesinterviews.playstation

 

[Rangers]

And in the same way, not having a hard drive in every Xbox 360 was a hard decision, but we wanted to get price under control. The hard drive in every Xbox killed us; we we're still selling it at $199 and the hard drive was like $70. That's why we prematurely left the original Xbox, because the more we were selling – there was still great demand – it was killing us, and there was no way to bring the price down. So in the end we determined at around the 25 million unit mark that we just needed to slow this thing down and just not sell any more, and move to the 360 as quickly as we possibly could. And to this day people still believe we left the Xbox too early but it was purely for financial purposes.

Most people dont seem to understand why Xbox 1 was killed so rapidly, or they expect the same thing with 360. I guess this might be the one message board on the internet where people do actually know why. It's interesting of the two prongs that killed Xbox 1, the hardware royalty model and the HDD, Peter focuses on the latter, suggesting it was actually the more important factor.

I really think it was a good move to leave HDD out of 360. Arcade is proving very popular at 199 and it only exists because of that decision. Going forward it's completely possible Arcade becomes the bestselling sku worldwide (I've already picked up rumblings that it's very popular in PAL countries even before the latest price reorganization, it should now follow in America).

 

[assen]

I really think it was a good move to leave HDD out of 360. Arcade is proving very popular at 199 and it only exists because of that decision. Going forward it's completely possible Arcade becomes the bestselling sku worldwide (I've already picked up rumblings that it's very popular in PAL countries even before the latest price reorganization, it should now follow in America).

The Arcade is popular with people who modchip them to play pirated games, because a) you don't go online with a chipped console, as you'll get banned or your firmware will be updated and b) you don't need demos when you torrent the full games on the day of the release. Fortunately, that train has left the station, and recent hardware revisions are ever harder to crack (the one local forum I frequent is full of people looking for second-hand arcade units with the old DVD drives).

 

[Acert93]

I really think it was a good move to leave HDD out of 360. Arcade is proving very popular at 199 and it only exists because of that decision. Going forward it's completely possible Arcade becomes the bestselling sku worldwide (I've already picked up rumblings that it's very popular in PAL countries even before the latest price reorganization, it should now follow in America).

It was a good move in concept, but seeing as it took MS nearly 3 years to deliver a significant price drop (33% in 3 years?!) their execution has pretty much blunted the impact of this SKU imo. On the other hand is has "translated" the cost of the HDD to consumers, i.e. it has a value, both in terms of cost and functionality. Hopefully with flash becoming cheap next gen will see large mass storage on all SKUs with "premium" SKUs having very large HDDs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sorry? The HDD in XB cost $70 right up to 2005/6?

 

[pipo]

I'm pretty sure MS signed a couple of ridiculous contracts when they were hurrying to get the original box out the door.

This might be one of 'm...

 

[Arwin]

I'm pretty sure MS signed a couple of ridiculous contracts when they were hurrying to get the original box out the door.

This might be one of 'm...

Yes, wasn't it with seagate?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then that really was a bad contract! I can understand the fixed price of the nVidia chips, but why would they tie themselves into a single HDD manufacturer at a fixed cost knowing full well HDD prices would plummet over the life of the machine?

 

[patsu]

Hmm... I thought the HDD manufacturer was actually very open and aggressive to reduce their unit price. As I recall, they gave MS a "very special price" because they were keen to see XBox succeed so that other consoles follow suit to include/bundle a HDD.

One of the failures however was that the Xbox HDD was not revenue generating (It's just a cost). This gen, the HDD enables a bunch of stuff (from content purchase to user-generated material). If they earn enough, it will help to offset the HDD cost... on paper.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well it's only a $30 cost,assuming no moronic contracts have been signed! That's not a huge amount of content, and over the life of the console should be recovered nicely.

I suppsose a lot depends on how well the Arcade does. If it sells en masse because of the magic pricepoint, perhaps it was the right decision and the downsides of no HDD as standard are fairly offset in MS's eye?

 

[Cyan]

Hmmm, very interesting stuff. Looks like he has been feeling very eloquent lately and he thought it was about time to shake off the slump. He has words for everyone and everything.

I still like Rare and they are great at using new techniques on the GPU like tessellation and so on, pushing the hardware to its limits or devising sophisticated graphics, but Peter thinks otherwise.

http://www.developmag.com/news/30516/Rare-lacks-relevance-in-modern-gaming-says-ex-Xbox-boss

Rare lacks relevance in modern gaming, says ex-Xbox boss

Peter Moore claims the skilled UK team is no longer important to modern gamers.

Aside from his intriguing insights into both the demise of the Dreamcast and original Xbox, in the third part of his interview with The Guardian former Xbox and Sega hardware boss Peter Moore has stated that UK developer Rare, which is now owned by Microsoft, is not in touch with the modern games industry.

Moore told the broadsheet: “I thought ultimately it would be very successful – and you know, Microsoft, we'd had a tough time getting Rare back.

"Perfect Dark Zero was a launch title and didn't do as well as Perfect Dark, but we were trying all kinds of classic Rare stuff and unfortunately I think the industry had past Rare by – it's a strong statement but what they were good at, new consumers didn't care about anymore.

“It was tough because they were trying very hard - Chris and Tim Stamper were still there – to try and recreate the glory years of Rare, which is the reason Microsoft paid a lot of money for them. And I spent a lot of time getting on a train to Twycross to meet them. Great people. But their skillsets were from a different time and a different place and were not applicable in today's market.”

 

[jandlecack]

Uh, I agree with him. Rare hasn't done a relevant game since the N64 era. They need to die. And fast. Their team is a waste of money and resources as a whole, and they're better off splitting the developers up and merging with other groups so that they can get the hint of what gamers want these days. We don't want Perfect Dark Boring, that's for sure.

Also, most of the talent that has left Rare long ago is now facing serious issues. See David Doak and his little project called HAZE. Prime example of antiquated game design, as Moore is trying to say.

 

[eastmen]

Uh, I agree with him. Rare hasn't done a relevant game since the N64 era. They need to die. And fast. Their team is a waste of money and resources as a whole, and they're better off splitting the developers up and merging with other groups so that they can get the hint of what gamers want these days. We don't want Perfect Dark Boring, that's for sure.

Also, most of the talent that has left Rare long ago is now facing serious issues. See David Doak and his little project called HAZE. Prime example of antiquated game design, as Moore is trying to say.

Rares had a bad time. They were working on the n64 and then were bought and moved to MS thats a big up heavel and then to top that off after releasing grabbed by the gholies and a port of conkers they were switched to the 360 .

I think rare can make great games again. PDZ was poor , but Kameo was a good game , VP 1 was a good game. I'm sure conkers and Banjo will both be good games. If Rare is antiquated game design then why does Mario galaxy still sell. Rare uses the same formula for their platfroms as nintendo does.

 

[assen]

Well it's only a $30 cost,assuming no moronic contracts have been signed! That's not a huge amount of content, and over the life of the console should be recovered nicely.

$30 is quite a lot - maybe 30 downloadable movies, or 5-6 Arcade games. Both are unlikely numbers for the vast majority of Madden/Guitar Hero/Wii Sports casuals.

(And no, you don't need a HDD to download Guitar Hero tracks. When Netflix comes with the new dashboard, you won't need a HDD to watch their movies, either.)

 

[-tkf-]

$30 is quite a lot - maybe 30 downloadable movies, or 5-6 Arcade games. Both are unlikely numbers for the vast majority of Madden/Guitar Hero/Wii Sports casuals.

(And no, you don't need a HDD to download Guitar Hero tracks. When Netflix comes with the new dashboard, you won't need a HDD to watch their movies, either.)

But you will need a good connection

 

[JPT]

$30 is quite a lot - maybe 30 downloadable movies, or 5-6 Arcade games. Both are unlikely numbers for the vast majority of Madden/Guitar Hero/Wii Sports casuals.

(And no, you don't need a HDD to download Guitar Hero tracks. When Netflix comes with the new dashboard, you won't need a HDD to watch their movies, either.)

But is this not the shift that they are trying to do, I mean switch to a model where a volume turn over of cheaper to produce content gives them a higher revenue. Ie some rockband/guitar hero songs are bought in singles/albums, instead of creating the rockband expansion cd?

If you do not store your Guitar Hero songs and buffer your netflix videos on a hdd, it means you need to store/buffer it somewhere else, ie memory card etc with limited storage capacity.

I think 30 USD is a realistic target for downloadble content for the casuals, its just the point about somebody shows them its available and its easy enough.
Then there are guys like me that earn enough to go bananas on the PSN store every thursday, I expect they have recouped the USD 30 and then some on me alone.

 

[liolio]

In regard to his comment about Rare and the very likely SF4 success, it might be time to ressuct KI form death

 

[Shifty Geezer]

$30 is quite a lot - maybe 30 downloadable movies, or 5-6 Arcade games. Both are unlikely numbers for the vast majority of Madden/Guitar Hero/Wii Sports casuals.

It depends whether you can convince them to give it a try, and offer stuff they want. Overall it is a significant cost, but the added benefits to weigh up to a pressing argument in an HDD's favour. Better for games, more download content, better services = better package to sell. The question is whether that altogether outweights however many hundreds of millions of dollars the HDD inclusion would cost, but surely MS and Sony et al have to believe it will, because that is their whole point in gunning for this market and the dream of a content portal serving everyone's media needs!

 

[pipo]

New part is up... First post edited.

From Xbox to EA. Was Moore forced out by the Red Ring of Death? Here's his take on the manufacturing meltdown that cost Microsoft billions...

 

[Acert93]

I have always liked Moore and these interviews crystalize why. Now if he would only fix all of EA's broken sports franchises... I wonder if he would listen to an email