Can you give me a link with the Killzone devs talking about multiple frame buffers? Would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Halo 3 IQ discussion * - Stay civil and polite folks!
- Thread starter palamede
- Start date
- Status
Can you give me a link with the Killzone devs talking about multiple frame buffers? Would be much appreciated. Thanks.
If the issue was raised in the original reviews, I would agree. The fact that this is being done retrospectively, and largely in response to this thread, legitimizes the notion that any retrospective should be inclusive of other subjects.
You really find it confusing why Gamespot decide to capitalize on this thread with regards to an entertainment property that have revenues close to $200 million in one day over say, titles like Tony Hawk or Tomb Raider: Legend? Really?
How far does the time allowance go? This was reported just a few days after Halo3 was released. The other titles are practically dead and buried anymore, as they were when Quaz came up with a way to demonstrate their true rendering resolution. They're not "news" anymore.
That's the nature of PR. For any bad press Bungie may get out of this (which as we can see, is not affecting the opinion of the game or the sales one iota), they're getting a ton of positive free publicity too which other games don't get. It goes both ways, the increased scrutiny you get corresponds to the level of hype you generate.
When MS/Bungie decided to promote Halo3 as the second coming, it should hardly be surprising that there's going to be more attention focused on it. For this tiny spec of a story, which from what I see has generated far more backlash than support, there's far more stories generating hype by...reporting on the hype. News pieces on television reporting the lineups, articles extolling the huge sales and how it was one of the biggest launches in history (front page story in the free Metro daily here) - other companies would _kill_ for this level of "unfairness".
So in that respect, I find Bungie's just going to have to suck up this great injustice that someone actually reported on their true rendering resolution, and dry their tears with the $100 bills that are pouring into the coffers by the second.
I am not confused as to why. They are indeed "capitalizing" on the Halo hype. That being said, by focusing on Halo only, the more important question as to why Halo and other games are doing this and how it reflects on the HD era of gaming is being ignored. Again, I appreciate that the timing and stature of Halo itself, would make it the primary focus of discussion, but losing sight of the greater context takes away from any meaningful discussion.
Are you saying that you are only interested in why Bungie decided to do this? You don't care about the decisions that other devs made, regardless of when?
Ideally, the topic should be extended from this H3 noise. Lots of people who wouldn't be aware of it can now ask questions that should be being asked of titles. eg. Quaz51's reported that the Jericho demo is 720p no AA on XB360, and 560p no AA on PS3. That's a huge discrepancy that could do wtih being addressed, looking at the whys and wherefores of hardware choices and game development, and what end consumers are actually getting. Especially if they're being sold a title on the strength of clear 720p screens yet they're getting a blurrier 560p or whatever.
Thing is most people won't care if Tony Hawk has substandard graphics. It's kind of expected.
I don't think Jericho is a title people have high expectations of either.
It is distressing as a PS3 owner that most multiplatform games are still faring worse technically. We had doubts raised about framerates on the PS3 with the EA games (although I believe Live and FIFA are suppose to be 60 fps but who knows if they really cut the resolution to reach that) and Joker's game as well.
I don't think Jericho is a title people have high expectations of either.
It is distressing as a PS3 owner that most multiplatform games are still faring worse technically. We had doubts raised about framerates on the PS3 with the EA games (although I believe Live and FIFA are suppose to be 60 fps but who knows if they really cut the resolution to reach that) and Joker's game as well.
I'd like game journalists to ask that of MS themselves, certainly. But as we both know, game journalism can seem like game catalogues sometime, it's not exactly hardcore investigative journalism.
Uh...no (as I've said many times) - how the heck are you getting that from my post?
I've made posts in the upscaling thread inquiring about games that I believe are upscaled before Halo3, I've been interested in the true resolutions of console games due to the secritive nature of console developers/publishers, but also because some games that upscale are readily apparent to me and I couldn't understand how others couldn't see it. Quaz just provided the definitive proof.
Halo3 is being discussed here because:
1) It's a popular and new game - in fact, it's the most popular game of its type in history. Most of my posts are responses to responses, and trying to clarify (continually, sadly) my position.
2) Its a Halo3 thread.
3) The issue has gotten mainstream media attention, unlike other upsampling games. I've explained why I think this is, and why I believe it's par for the course.
4) I'm playing the game extensively. I'm not playing TR:Legend or Tony Hawk.
5) As a flagship title released nearly two years into the 360's lifespan, people will be less forgiving than a title at launch where shortcuts are more understandable due to the environment being so new to many programmers. Especially considering this is a first-party title and Bungie have no doubt had very close contact with the 360 engineers and programmers for some time.
i posted this a couple of months ago
-------------------------------------
is it 720p or 1080p
thats the problem i've talked about in the past with both 720+1080 being called HD
but im with you, based on what of seen of it theres no way this game will run at less than 720p. ms wouldnt allow it
----------------------------
my opinion hasnt changed, thats why its so shocking that halo is not HD, this is the xb360 flagship title (ps3 would be ff13/mgs4)
ms/sony have been ramming down our throats for ages that this gen is all about HD, to suddenly start singing a different tune is a bit pathetic
perhaps a page on wiki should be created with various games resolutions stated (nice to see all the effort quaz51 has put in, btw do u own alll those games?)
-------------------------------------
what is full HD?
is it 720p or 1080p
thats the problem i've talked about in the past with both 720+1080 being called HD
but im with you, based on what of seen of it theres no way this game will run at less than 720p. ms wouldnt allow it
----------------------------
my opinion hasnt changed, thats why its so shocking that halo is not HD, this is the xb360 flagship title (ps3 would be ff13/mgs4)
ms/sony have been ramming down our throats for ages that this gen is all about HD, to suddenly start singing a different tune is a bit pathetic
perhaps a page on wiki should be created with various games resolutions stated (nice to see all the effort quaz51 has put in, btw do u own alll those games?)
scooby_dooby
Legend
Ya I didn't think it was likely, due to the negative backlash they'd recieve, although the mainstream news has been slower to pick up the story than I expected. Is any other mainstream news outlet other than GameSpot running with it??
Going through that thread starting from here : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1043177&postcount=268, I certainly think one has had it rough. Hopefully he received apologies from all involved in what could only be described as excessive (and wrong) bullying, especially considering what he has contributed to the forum.
I'd say that it's because for the most part, no one cares. Forums like this, where a game will be deemed garbage because a pixel quad is not the right shade of fuschia do not represent popular opinion.
You're right, actually, I went back and read it again. At first I read it as, "upscaled DVDs vs. HD-DVDs". Which would have been closer.
Well, yeah, clearly the effect is going to be even more pronounced if you throw even more resolution at it, though there's also going to be some kind of diminishing returns as you approach the limit of the eventual target resolution to render detail.
The reason I don't see a vast difference in your images (barring the AA effect) isn't because I don't see large improvements to certain elements of the scene. It's because I see subtle to no improvement in other important elements of the scene. I'm hard pressed, for example to see any difference in the jeep in the foreground at all and I would consider that a pretty major element. The 2 structures behind the Jeep on the left hand side show only a subtle (though noticeable) difference. The railing on the right hand side doesn't seem to be that different between the two scenes, either. The road OTOH shows a huge difference and the trees and mountains in the background pop noticeably in the oversampled image.
To me a vast difference would have to show more of a consistent improvement over the different primary elements of the scene.
Can we agree, at least, that some images depending on their composition will show greater differences than others?
H3 is still considerably higher res than SDTV, and in that respect, can be considered HD. Also regards the HD marketing, the PR peeps were pushing home the idea that HD wasn't just higher resolution, but everything being better. Thus a game that's better in every way other than resolution from last gen could be attributed the HD moniker.
It's all just marketing anyway. HD was only used as an easy tagline to try and convince people they need to upgrade. Like HD TV's being used by the ignorant to watch DVDs under the delusion they're seeing more than a normal TV. HD = better, the adverts say so. Ergo we must buy anything with HD in it, whether it's actually any different or not. Slap an HD on your game to make in the now thing. It's like sticking a lower case 'i' in front of your product name. HD is principally just a gimmick rather than a measure.
Yes, like AA and AF. HD has typically been defined as 720P and above, unless the PR peeps are inventing new definitions for decade old terms. Maybe the console guys need to stick to "Nextgen" if they can't get to at least 720P to use the term "HD".
NTSC SD is 720x480i
PAL SD is 768x576i
"ED" (Enhanced / Extended) is 768x576p
Rendering it at 1180x640 (or whatever it is) is going to look far, far better upscaled on a 720p display than it is any SD display.
PAL SD is 768x576i
"ED" (Enhanced / Extended) is 768x576p
Rendering it at 1180x640 (or whatever it is) is going to look far, far better upscaled on a 720p display than it is any SD display.
Well, I think it's obvious as to why Bungie didn't announce they weren't running 720p. The vast majority of gaming folk don't know what that even really means lol. And if you come out and negatively publicize your product, you aren't going to benefit from it. Tho I suppose there is the slight chance that if they explained it as doing it to make the "most fantabulous lighting evar", it could've been a positive thing. But that's relying on higher reasoning skills of your customers hehe.
If you go look around other less technical sites, you'll see massive numbers of 360 and Halo apologists yapping about how it doesn't matter and how we should all "get lives".
My significantly younger bro chimed in from college, after beating the game, and let me know that it wasn't all that much better than Halo 2 to him. He said it looked "shinier" than the old games lol. He's not all that technically enthused so that was an interesting comment I thought. He said he prefers GoW. So, considering I didn't like Halo 2 all that much either, I'm going to just avoid the game until it's nearly free, I think.
If you go look around other less technical sites, you'll see massive numbers of 360 and Halo apologists yapping about how it doesn't matter and how we should all "get lives".
My significantly younger bro chimed in from college, after beating the game, and let me know that it wasn't all that much better than Halo 2 to him. He said it looked "shinier" than the old games lol. He's not all that technically enthused so that was an interesting comment I thought. He said he prefers GoW. So, considering I didn't like Halo 2 all that much either, I'm going to just avoid the game until it's nearly free, I think.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status