Halo 3 IQ discussion * - Stay civil and polite folks!

[Shifty Geezer]

The driving sequence was horrid. Absolutely the worst part of the entire game from a climax, gameplay, and visual perspective.

All of which has what to do with H3's image quality? We're talking about the rendering engine here, not about the game overall. And if you're going to say a part of the game was the worst, it'd also be good to add comments on the rest of the game. Was there really absolutely nothing in the game to like, and it just went from bad to worse? (not to be answered in this thread of course)

 

[psorcerer]

In fact, the general consensus seems to be that Halo 3 is a good looking game.

Anybody who knows about computer graphics and computer generated images clearly see that the image quality in Halo 3 is below average, and that's the expert opinion.

 

[psorcerer]

Wow. Where to begin?

It's so simple. Begin with: anybody who's not expert can operate with the "like/don't like", which is called subjective rating.
Experts operate with knowledge and logic which is an objective rating.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's so simple. Begin with: anybody who's not expert can operate with the "like/don't like", which is called subjective rating.
Experts operate with knowledge and logic which is an objective rating.

Experts can be wrong though, and can be subjective too being influenced by their subjective response. The correct reasoning on H3's IQ is measuring certain image quality criteria, which is an objective process whether you are an expert or not, we get an objective response. You don't need to be an expert as long as you know what to look for. Any educated to look for line stepping can judge for themselves the amount of AA, for example, without any prior experience.

Also people need to be clear on the distinction between a game's IQ and whether it looks good or not. H3 lacks AA, AF, and higher resolution, which are IQ factors, but it can still look good which is a subjective response. Plus framerate and tearing are also IQ considerations which aren't covered in screenshots. I don't recall them being raised much in this thread.

 

[Dr. Meaty]

I only mentioned the driving sequence because of certain "can this really be a whole new engine"-ish comments being made in reference to that one lousy screen grab.

 

[woundingchaney]

In fact, the general consensus seems to be that Halo 3 is a good looking game.

Anybody who knows about computer graphics and computer generated images clearly see that the image quality in Halo 3 is below average, and that's the expert opinion.

Which is based on criteria such as: no AA, no AF, 640p. All of which are very valid points.

IQ is a collaboration of several features in the look of a game. I personally think the IQ of H3 is good (not groundbreaking) but this is a basis of considerably more than AA, AF, and 640p.

Anyone that knows anything about "computer graphics and computer generated images" knows that the end result is greater than the sums of its parts (or lack there of).

Unfortunately H3 is not a steady game, there are some moments that are almost awe inspiring and other than leaves one wondering what the hell happened (driving sequence and some interior levels most of which are found in the later portion of the game). Overall I personally feel the game is pleasing visually primarily through the scale of the title and its lighting. Though as mentioned in the later stages (not all of them) of the game very bland interiors and a noticeable lack of texture detail that is found earlier in the title, also the lack of AA and AF are considerably more noticealbe during these segments than in others (imo)..

 

[psorcerer]

Experts can be wrong though, and can be subjective too being influenced by their subjective response.

They're not experts then.

The correct reasoning on H3's IQ is measuring certain image quality criteria, which is an objective process whether you are an expert or not, we get an objective response. You don't need to be an expert as long as you know what to look for. Any educated to look for line stepping can judge for themselves the amount of AA, for example, without any prior experience.

You've implied knowledge on "what AA is" with this one.
And knowledge means education and education means - expert. I'm using "expert" term here just as a shorter substitute for "people who have education/knowledge".

Also people need to be clear on the distinction between a game's IQ and whether it looks good or not. H3 lacks AA, AF, and higher resolution, which are IQ factors, but it can still look good which is a subjective response. Plus framerate and tearing are also IQ considerations which aren't covered in screenshots. I don't recall them being raised much in this thread.

The subjective response is "I like how it looks" but not "it looks good", because it looks horrible.

 

[woundingchaney]

They're not experts then.



You've implied knowledge on "what AA is" with this one.
And knowledge means education and education means - expert. I'm using "expert" term here just as a shorter substitute for "people who have education/knowledge".



The subjective response is "I like how it looks" but not "it looks good", because it looks horrible.

"it looks horrible" is a personal opinion based on an overall quality, from which you seem to be focusing on no AA, no AF, and 640p or other such criteria to support your personal view which is not an "expert opinion"

An expert opinion wouldnt lead one to believe that such statements could be summed up in "it looks good" or "it looks horrible", it seems as if your using some bland expert scenario in order to back up your dislike of the visuals in the game.

 

[Dr. Meaty]

The subjective response is "I like how it looks" but not "it looks good", because it looks horrible.

Dude, I think you just blew my mind.

 

[psorcerer]

"it looks horrible" is a personal opinion based on an overall basis, from which you seem to be focusing on no AA, no AF, and 640p or other such criteria to support your personal view which is not an "expert opinion"

And why is that? Why do you think that "good/horrible" is subjective?
And if you do believe that good/horrible and any other qualitative expression is subjective, why don't you ask moderators to ban any post that uses it in this seemingly objective thread?

 

[woundingchaney]

And why is that? Why do you think that "good/horrible" is subjective?
And if you do believe that good/horrible and any other qualitative expression is subjective, why don't you ask moderators to ban any post that uses it in this seemingly objective thread?

I have no intention of asking a moderator to do any such thing.

good/horrible is subjective in an opinion based context, outside of opinion it loses its subjectivity and becomes fact or at least stated as fact
if one is speaking on the level of AA or AF or other such hardline statements then these wouldnt be opinion as they are fact (as long as they are backed up which they are), the opinion is how much these affect the overall IQ


I was drawing a spotlight on your understanding of subjective and then you stating the game looks horrible. I am also questioning your use of this "expert" scenario to back up your belief on the game looking horrible or the IQ being horrible. As each of us you are entitled to your opinion, but to state it as something outside of opinion in the manner of an "expert" is stretching the circumstances.

 

[psorcerer]

I was drawing a spotlight on your understanding of subjective and then you stating the game looks horrible. I am also questioning your use of this "expert" scenario to back up your belief on the game looking horrible or the IQ being horrible. As each of us you are entitled to your opinion, but to state it as something outside of opinion in the manner of an "expert" is stretching the circumstances.

I don't have my opinion on Halo 3 IQ.
I just do not think it deserves my attention.
But I do read all the posts in this thread and i do have a picture of the objective qualities of the Halo 3 visuals.
So I'm not trying to back up myself but all the people who did a great work trying to bring objective arguments here.

 

[woundingchaney]

I don't have my opinion on Halo 3 IQ.
I just do not think it deserves my attention.
But I do read all the posts in this thread and i do have a picture of the objective qualities of the Halo 3 visuals.
So I'm not trying to back up myself but all the people who did a great work trying to bring objective arguments here.

I would like to extend my apologies as after this statement I have no idea what your intentions are in the thread or what we have been talking about. I was under the belief we were talking about what constitutes as "horrible" or "good" and the extent of defining "expert".

 

[Geo]

Horrible describes the last page pretty well. If you're down to arguing what's an expert it might be time to let this one die.

 

[-tkf-]

Spoiler

Parts of it collapse, specifically the one your on, not the whole thing

Video of the "plates" driving section:

http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/b3d/Halo 3 - Lego Set Ending.mp4

Thanks, well the video does confirm your screenshot it also looks like fun and mayheim for the Halo3 players.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

[Popeye]That's alls I can stands, and I can't stands no more![/Popeye]When people start claiming 'it looks good' is objective reasoning and using terms like 'it's horrible' to support their supposed objective opinion, throwing the whole discussion into one of those ghastly literary debates on the English language and its misuse, it shows the expiry date of the thread has been well and truly surpassed.

*munch spinach*

[Popeye]I'm strongs to the finich, 'cause I eats me spinach...[/Popeye]

*locks thread*