PS3 Launch Outsells Xbox 360 Launch?*

[DeathKnight]

Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out.

That's interesting info (I've seen it quoted elsewhere as well). However, how many of those "400,000" PS3 owners are actually watching Blu-Ray movies on their console let alone buying them? That's what pisses me off to no end about all the people who shout from the rooftops that PS3 sales are some kind of indication of Blu-Ray's success as an HD movie format. That's simply not the case. In comparison every single person who purchases a stand-alone HD-DVD player or the 360 HD-DVD add-on is doing so in order to watch HD-DVD's. This is an indication of HD-DVD's success as an HD movie format. Stand-alone Blu-Ray sales are absolutely paltry in comparison to HD-DVD players. Dedicated player sales are where it really matters.

 

[22psi]

Interesting tidbit found:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/06q1_sony.pdf

Production shipment units of hardware and software are counted upon shipment of the products from manufacturing bases. Sales of such products are recognized when the products are delivered to customers (retail).

 

[one]

These diodes can also go to the HD-DVD players, especially BR standalone buyers who will likely consume more BR discs than PS3 owners. They are all important to various groups in Sony.

Yeah, the PC market is another consumer.

 

[jonabbey]

That's interesting info (I've seen it quoted elsewhere as well). However, how many of those "400,000" PS3 owners are actually watching Blu-Ray movies on their console let alone buying them? That's what pisses me off to no end about all the people who shout from the rooftops that PS3 sales are some kind of indication of Blu-Ray's success as an HD movie format. That's simply not the case. In comparison every single person who purchases a stand-alone HD-DVD player or the 360 HD-DVD add-on is doing so in order to watch HD-DVD's. This is an indication of HD-DVD's success as an HD movie format. Stand-alone Blu-Ray sales are absolutely paltry in comparison to HD-DVD players. Dedicated player sales are where it really matters.

But if there are 20 times as many PS3s sold as HD-DVD players and add-ons, you only need a 5% usage rate to equal what HD-DVD has.

Presumably, some significant fraction of those PS3 owners do not yet own HDTV sets, and so they have no use for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. But when they do get HDTV, do you think they'll spend out of pocket for an HD-DVD player, or will they just pick up Blu-Ray movies and go with what they've got?

I think PS3 sales are blocking on HD-DVD sales, unless HD-DVD succeeds at tipping the market in some other fashion, or unless a consumer just has to have a Universal release.

Conversely for Sony and Disney on the Blu-Ray side, of course.

 

[Rolf N]

SOme site had an article about the deflation of the PS3 on ebay. Basically it took about 2 days before the thing tanked and then fluttered its way to barely above retail.

Can you be a little less vague so we can tell you how wrong you are with some precision?

 

[infinity4]

some people need to know that there is higher proportion of people buying ps3s than 360s who arent actually going to use it. look at japanese ps3 launch. i heard A LOT OF PEOPLE were chinese used by agents for $100 payments or something

 

[Corwin_B]

some people need to know that there is higher proportion of people buying ps3s than 360s who arent actually going to use it. look at japanese ps3 launch. i heard A LOT OF PEOPLE were chinese used by agents for $100 payments or something

Slowdown of Ebay sales and growth of attach rate (from the horrendous initial rate to a much better 2.5 now) seem to indicate that the scalping fever cooled down a lot. Also, those PS3 bought on Ebay after launch are probably now in the hands of actual end-users, not speculators.

 

[Ginko]

Can you be a little less vague so we can tell you how wrong you are with some precision?

Chill out. He's referring to the situation that PS3's dropped to their retail value rather quickly on ebay. There were even some cases when it went for slightly below. Perhaps you missed the articles about people returning multiple PS3's to retailers when they couldn't move them like they wanted on ebay.

 

[dobwal]

But if there are 20 times as many PS3s sold as HD-DVD players and add-ons, you only need a 5% usage rate to equal what HD-DVD has.

Presumably, some significant fraction of those PS3 owners do not yet own HDTV sets, and so they have no use for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. But when they do get HDTV, do you think they'll spend out of pocket for an HD-DVD player, or will they just pick up Blu-Ray movies and go with what they've got?

I think PS3 sales are blocking on HD-DVD sales, unless HD-DVD succeeds at tipping the market in some other fashion, or unless a consumer just has to have a Universal release.

Conversely for Sony and Disney on the Blu-Ray side, of course.

While the PS3 does a fabulous job of helping Sony seed the HD market with BluRay players, high sales of the PS3 is no way indicative of the success of Bluray as a format.

Sony has over 20 million UMD players on the market in the form of the PSP, yet UMD as a format is seen as anything but a success. While there are other factors that lead to dismal UMD sales, this scenario shows that putting players out there in bunches doesn't mean that a secondary function such as movie playback in a certain format is going to succeed in pushing the popularity of that format.

There is also the question of attachment rate. You would not only need that 5%, but that %5 must have an uptake rate of Bluray movies similar to standalone owners. Its highly likely that the average uptake of BluRay movies per user would be lower amongst PS3 owners and that to compensate an actual higher percentage of PS3 owners would have to adopt BluRay playback.

 

[patsu]

While the PS3 does a fabulous job of helping Sony seed the HD market with BluRay players, high sales of the PS3 is no way indicative of the success of Bluray as a format.

Sony has over 20 million UMD players on the market in the form of the PSP, yet UMD as a format is seen as anything but a success. While there are other factors that lead to dismal UMD sales, this scenario shows that putting players out there in bunches doesn't mean that a secondary function such as movie playback in a certain format is going to succeed in pushing the popularity of that format.

There is also the question of attachment rate. You would not only need that 5%, but that %5 must have an uptake rate of Bluray movies similar to standalone owners. Its highly likely that the average uptake of BluRay movies per user would be lower amongst PS3 owners and that to compensate an actual higher percentage of PS3 owners would have to adopt BluRay playback.

Agreed ! Sony's job isn't done yet. BDA will still need to market Blu-ray to generate the interests. At the same time, I wonder how many people bought PS3 just for Blu-ray viewing. I saw someone like this posting on AVS, which made me smile (They were commenting on SIXAXIS).

The high volume will also help to drive down Blu-ray player component cost.

As for UMD, the situation is more complicated because fewer people wants to view movie on-the-go. Even though I travel often, I don't buy UMD movies. Short games are better since I get interrupted outside more often.

 

[Rolf N]

Chill out. He's referring to the situation that PS3's dropped to their retail value rather quickly on ebay. There were even some cases when it went for slightly below. Perhaps you missed the articles about people returning multiple PS3's to retailers when they couldn't move them like they wanted on ebay.

Articles shmarticles.
777$ | 899$ | 720$ (20GB + extra Controller) | 700$ | 675$ w HDMI cable | 885$ | 660$

That was today, in ten afternoon minutes. Prices somewhere between 800 and 900$ still happen at saner times for business, such as last night. Is that barely above retail? Or have prices been lower two days after launch?

If I'm supposed to believe that two days after launch the prices were just "barely above retail", then surely "barely" must have been significantly redefined while I was looking in a different direction.

 

[thatdude90210]

Articles shmarticles.
777$ | 899$ | 720$ (20GB + extra Controller) | 700$ | 675$ w HDMI cable | 885$ | 660$

The first 2 are by the same bidder with "private" feedback. And another two over 700 was another 0 feedback bidder. I wouldn't be surprise if the buyer(s) ask the guy to send them to Nigeria, along with cash, for a check made out to a higher amount than the sales.

Considering how widely available it is, anyone who buys it for over retail is a moron.

 

[Rolf N]

The first 2 are by the same bidder with "private" feedback. And another two over 700 was another 0 feedback bidder. I wouldn't be surprise if the buyer(s) ask the guy to send them to Nigeria, along with cash, for a check made out to a higher amount than the sales.

Considering how widely available it is, anyone who buys it for over retail is a moron.

Aha. Maybe someone who is much more bored than I am can take over the detective game.
So what do you think? Barely above retail price two days after launch reasonable statement to make yes/no. It has been that simple all along.

 

[Ginko]

Aha. Maybe someone who is much more bored than I am can take over the detective game.
So what do you think? Barely above retail price two days after launch reasonable statement to make yes/no. It has been that simple all along.

You picked out a few special cases out of thousands. Did you notice what the large majority of them were going for?

 

[Nesh]

Ok people should calm down. I didnt post this thread to make 360 and PS3 supporters clash with each other.

First of all to avoid this I pointed out in my first post this number could be shipped, so I underestimated the figure. People though seem to avoid this and coninue grasping on the article alone.

Secondly I do not understand why people instead of discussing the actual thread, the possible numbers sold and what I posted they bring up Ebay, how bad PS3 in Ebay, or put words into people's mouths. I ve seen none trying (or actually wanting to find) the possible figure of units sold in NA. 360 supporters dont want to in case PS3 surpassed 360's launch in units sold, and PS3 supports dont want to because the 1 million figure could actually be inflated. Some people seem too pissed by the numbers. Not the actual numbers therselves but the possible outcome.

Probably the only person (london boy) who noted something very factual and wasnt mentioned niether in my post or the article is the fact that PS2 DID do better than the PS3 and if I remember correctly it approached the one million mark SOLD in a weak, only in Japan (more than 700,000 sold and around 1million shipped if I remember correctly). PS3 did not perform as well as the PS2 in numbers sold, but it didnt bad either.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Considering how widely available it is, anyone who buys it for over retail is a moron.

Who in the hell started the rumor that the Playstation 3 is widely available? I just checked my local BestBuy and Futureshop with NEITHER having any Playstation 3's in stock! Just because a couple of chumps have taken pictures of places where Playstation 3 is available does not mean that the entirety of North America has an abundance of Playstation 3's lying around. What exactly is that link you have there mean when it states that 60GB models are available at Gamestop, BestBuy, etc. Does it mean that their are units available at one of the 1, 100 BesBuy stores across Canada and the United States or that a 'select few' stores have some available? I would imagine the Playstation 3 is selling near or at capacity right now and the areas that have been photographed represent only a small portion of retail outlets. These images have done nothing but paint a misleading picture for people and frankly I am surprised that this garnered so much attention from people.

 

[patsu]

I ve seen none trying (or actually wanting to find) the possible figure of units sold in NA. 360 supporters dont want to in case PS3 surpassed 360's launch in units sold, and PS3 supports dont want to because the 1 million figure could actually be inflated. Some people seem too pissed by the numbers. Not the actual numbers therselves but the possible outcome.

"Sold-through (??? PS3) vs sold-through (About 600K 360), we are still waiting for NPD or vgcharts. Nothing conclusive. It's just 1 data point even if we have the numbers."

 

[Natoma]

Who in the hell started the rumor that the Playstation 3 is widely available? I just checked my local BestBuy and Futureshop with NEITHER having any Playstation 3's in stock! Just because a couple of chumps have taken pictures of places where Playstation 3 is available does not mean that the entirety of North America has an abundance of Playstation 3's lying around. What exactly is that link you have there mean when it states that 60GB models are available at Gamestop, BestBuy, etc. Does it mean that their are units available at one of the 1, 100 BesBuy stores across Canada and the United States or that a 'select few' stores have some available? I would imagine the Playstation 3 is selling near or at capacity right now and the areas that have been photographed represent only a small portion of retail outlets. These images have done nothing but paint a misleading picture for people and frankly I am surprised that this garnered so much attention from people.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070108-8574.html

PS3 demand slows, stores stocked aplenty

The results are unambiguous: the PlayStation 3 is in stock, almost everywhere. In Cincinnati, there were PS3s at multiple Wal-Marts, GameStops, and Circuit City stores. The numbers went from only one system at the first Wal-Mart store to 15 at the second; everyone else seemed to have under ten units, mixed between the 20GB and 60GB models. If you want to buy a PS3, it's simply a matter of going to the right store or ordering from Best Buy or Circuit City online, both of which have them in stock, ready to ship. The same can be said for the Xbox 360, which is also available everywhere we checked. The Wii, on the other hand, has been sold out everywhere, with vague rumors of another shipment in the next few days.

One retailer spoke to me on condition of anonymity, and broke down his version of the situation. "It's not that we've gotten more PS3s than Wiis, it's just that no one wants them. We've seen a few returned. We have four in the store right now," he said. He also told of people coming in with multiple systems and no receipts, looking for cash back after their eBay listings failed to gather attention. "If you told me that I would have PS3s to sell and that I won't be able to get enough Wiis back in October, I would have laughed at you," he went on. He also detailed a memo from a regional vice president telling managers to put up a hand-written note telling customers that the PS3 is in stock.

Without any clear numbers outside of the 1 million shipped in North America, it's hard to say if demand for the PS3 is cooling or if supply is simply catching up. Recall that it wasn't until spring was nearly here last year that Microsoft was able to meet the initial demand.

It's not the case that the PS3 isn't selling well, however. One store manager revealed that they have sold 24 of 28 launch units, and most others who would talk to us told similar tales. Sales are strong; they're simply not as strong as many expected and a few even hoped.

The rush for the PS3 is over, and now it's up to Sony to get the games and updates needed to put the PS3 back in the minds of gamers to move this inventory. This is a marathon, not a sprint, but the widespread availability has to be troubling to Sony. When the "sold out" stories quickly become "inventory stacked to the ceiling a month later" stories, shareholders may become somewhat unsettled by how strong the competition has become.

Looks like there's something to this?

 

[blakjedi]

Thanks Natoma. I meant to raise the point about wii which is really the best selling console this season. ABSOLUTELY no where has wiis, that I have seen in weeks. It really is incredible how well they are selling... Zelda plus the price is the perfect store.

 

[Natoma]

I'm thinking that all the diehard fans of Sony have purchased their PS3s, or those looking to make a quick buck. But getting John Q. Public to cough up $600 for a PS3, or even $500, will be an even tougher gambit.

Particularly considering that you can have a Wii for $250 or a Xbox 360 Premium for $400. Hell, the core sells for $300.

Sony really needs to drop that price imo, otherwise they may be in for a rude awakening by the end of the year if Wii and 360 continue selling as they have.

According to VGCharts, the Wii has sold 4 million consoles worldwide to date, and PS3 has sold 1.41 million consoles. Not a good start for Sony imo, particularly since they're saying they shipped 1 million consoles in North America, and it appears only 860k have sold through.

Nintendo said they'd ship 4 million by the end of 2006 and it looks like they've sold all of them, in contrast.