HDMI output for X360

[expletive]

You don't need it, doesn't mean that people won't use it now or in the future if its there.

Absolutely, i was only responding to the idea of converting their whole lineup of consoles to include it. I think its smart and almost necessary for them to have one SKU with it (or offer a cable), I just dont see the need for them to change all of them. Besides it would bring them 5 or 10 further away from their 199 or 149 price becuase i dont think they can scrap the multi a/v out and replace it with HDMI, theyll probably need both.

I think Sony actually did them a favor by introducing a SKU without HDMI, it validated their strategy somewhat.

Probably because it would have caused delays and there have been a number of revisions out there.

Unless you know someting i dont (which is clearly possible) i dont see why HDMI 1.1 was already "in the wild" when the 360 was released.

 

[Trawler]

Sony added extra inputs/outputs to the PS2 over time. Adding a HDMI output on the 360 is no different than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2#Hardware_revisions

 

[kyleb]

I think its smart and almost necessary for them to have one SKU with it (or offer a cable), I just dont see the need for them to change all of them.

They would be 'changing all of them' though but rather changing the way the build them, and when they do it would likely be more of a hassle than anything to build both ones with and ones without.


Oh, and "in the wild" doesn't mean you can just slap it in whenever you like and call it good.

 

[Tahir2]

I thought Xenos didnt have a TDMS transmitter?

 

[expletive]

They would be 'changing all of them' though but rather changing the way the build them, and when they do it would likely be more of a hassle than anything to build both ones with and ones without.

Sony seems to think its worth it. I just dont believe MS wants to give up any cost advantage for their core system. They may put it in every other SKU but i think the core stays component permanently.

Oh, and "in the wild" doesn't mean you can just slap it in whenever you like and call it good.

Whats your point? Obviously you dont just solder it on and it works. If youre making the point that MS wouldn't have been able to implement HDMI after planning the 360 for 2 years, and it having already been done on many existing CE devices, then go ahead and make it.

 

[Guden Oden]

Sony added extra inputs/outputs to the PS2 over time.

ADDED? What the heck they ADDED?

First they took away the firewire port. Then they took away the PCMCIA interface/ harddrive bay with the slimline model. They didn't add shit in the way of ports. Alright alright. You could argue they added the ethernet port to the slimline, but that just moves it up to the status of original PS2 + harddrive expansion. Sans the harddrive of course, so then you're missing the IDE interface anyway on the slimline, so +/- 0 ports sum total; you basically just trade one for the other.

Was the same by the way with original PS, each revision of the hardware, some port fell off in the process. S-video, audio out, etc. Eventually, all that was left was the multi-out. Soon there was barely an on/off button left...

 

[Guden Oden]

I thought Xenos didnt have a TDMS transmitter?

Xenos doesn't have component out either. Nor VGA RGB, S-Video etc.

 

[kyleb]

Sony seems to think its worth it. I just dont believe MS wants to give up any cost advantage for their core system. They may put it in every other SKU but i think the core stays component permanently.

I doubt they will ever want to give up much cost advantage on either SKU, but will start selling both with the HDMI port when the market demand outweights the costs.

Whats your point? Obviously you dont just solder it on and it works. If youre making the point that MS wouldn't have been able to implement HDMI after planning the 360 for 2 years, and it having already been done on many existing CE devices, then go ahead and make it.

Yep, regardless of previous experience the effort still takes time, time they obviously though was better spent somewhere else.

 

[Tahir2]

Xenos doesn't have component out either. Nor VGA RGB, S-Video etc.

You know what I meant...
It was cost saving... the HDMI socket is the most overrated piece of junk ever anyway.

 

[expletive]

Yep, regardless of previous experience the effort still takes time, time they obviously though was better spent somewhere else.

I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that the addition of HDMI results in a subtraction somewhere else, MS basically has infinite resources for something like the designing/engineering of their next console. But hey, we havent agreed on anything else, why break tradition.

 

[kyleb]

Regardless of what resources you have avalable, delegating them takes time.

 

[expletive]

Regardless of what resources you have avalable, delegating them takes time.

So when the 360 was being designed, you think MS may have wanted to have HDMI but decided there was no way they could properly delegate the additional resources needed to implement it, so they took it out?

 

[Guden Oden]

Regardless of what resources you have avalable, delegating them takes time.

That's a nonsensical argument. You can source a video out chip that supports HDMI just as quickly as you source one that doesn't; MS didn't design it. They ordered it from a third party.

 

[Sis]

That's a nonsensical argument. You can source a video out chip that supports HDMI just as quickly as you source one that doesn't; MS didn't design it. They ordered it from a third party.

I thought they got the video out chip from the internal team (the ex-WebTV guys?). My memory of this is fuzzy though.

 

[kyleb]

So when the 360 was being designed, you think MS may have wanted to have HDMI but decided there was no way they could properly delegate the additional resources needed to implement it, so they took it out?

I'm guessing they didn't spend much time worrying about it back then.

 

[MoHonRi]

I thought they got the video out chip from the internal team (the ex-WebTV guys?). My memory of this is fuzzy though.

You are correct sir.

The ATI chip doesnt have anything to do with the actual output of the frame (just the rendering).


MoH

 

[Dave Baumann]

Absolutely, i was only responding to the idea of converting their whole lineup of consoles to include it. I think its smart and almost necessary for them to have one SKU with it (or offer a cable), I just dont see the need for them to change all of them.

Who knows. But It wouldn't surprise me that over the lifetime of the console all the versions that will be on sale at some point would have it.

Unless you know someting i dont (which is clearly possible) i dont see why HDMI 1.1 was already "in the wild" when the 360 was released.

And was everything surrounding it? The content protection rules weren't sorted out until recently, so including it at the time they released it may have resulted in a system that ultimately wouldn't be compatible. Everything is ratified now and protected HD content is shipping now.

 

[Guden Oden]

And was everything surrounding it? The content protection rules weren't sorted out until recently

Hum, HDCP has surely been set in stone for longer than the 360 has been out, there's stuff that's been using it in the wild for longer than the 360 has been on sale.

Wether HD home movies would use HDCP or not would not suddenly have made a 360 with HDMI as standard incompatible. If that was the case then we might just throw away all the TVs with HDMI ports that have been bought over the last year or so.

 

[ban25]

A firmware update could very easily have been released to handle any conceivable issues with compatibility, much like they already do today with the Xbox backwards compatibility. We're talking about HDMI here, not AACS, and displays were shipping with HDMI well before the 360 was released (as expletive has pointed out).

In fact, even supposing you're right, and the copy protection issues would have been some insurmountable hurdle, there was nothing to stop them from including some form of digital video output like DVI, or even just the raw capability to output a digital signal.

Ultimately, it probably came down to time, however inconceivable for a company with such deep coffers as Microsoft. They reused the WebTV chip and that imposed certain restrictions on them, like no digital output. Given that, at the time, they had no HD optical media support in the system and the fact that practically all HDTV owners have component inputs, this was not deemed a serious concern. And realistically, it's not, though it would have been nice for people with high-end displays.

Who knows. But It wouldn't surprise me that over the lifetime of the console all the versions that will be on sale at some point would have it.

And was everything surrounding it? The content protection rules weren't sorted out until recently, so including it at the time they released it may have resulted in a system that ultimately wouldn't be compatible. Everything is ratified now and protected HD content is shipping now.

 

[Iron Tiger]

ADDED? What the heck they ADDED?

First they took away the firewire port. Then they took away the PCMCIA interface/ harddrive bay with the slimline model. They didn't add shit in the way of ports. Alright alright. You could argue they added the ethernet port to the slimline, but that just moves it up to the status of original PS2 + harddrive expansion. Sans the harddrive of course, so then you're missing the IDE interface anyway on the slimline, so +/- 0 ports sum total; you basically just trade one for the other.

Was the same by the way with original PS, each revision of the hardware, some port fell off in the process. S-video, audio out, etc. Eventually, all that was left was the multi-out. Soon there was barely an on/off button left...

Didn't they add in the IR port, too? Plus the slimline plays DVDs in progressive scan, unlike the original.

Sega did the same thing going from Genesis/MD 1 to 2. I'm not sure if they took any ports off the back, but the dropped the headphone jack from the front. I doubt if the NES2 had the composite outputs that were on the original NES, either.

I think my original question hasn't yet been directly answered. Is it known for a fact that the (currently on the market SKUs of) Xbox 360 can't output a pure digital image for digital transmission to a digital display? Is the supposition by a lot of the community that MS will release an HDMI or DVI cable to connect the 360 they already own to their screen an impossible (or highly unlikely) dream? Are there any pins on the X360's A/V multi-out port reserved for the transmission of a digital video signal?