Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [pre E3 2019] *spawn*

[Shortbread]

Possibly related to the version from chris original post.

Polyphony over-specced Gran Turismo Sport for future 8K consoles

During the studio tour, Kazunori Yamauchi took us from desk to desk, showing his staff beavering away on the game and the insane amount of detail the team goes to make the experience authentic. It’s really quite insane. At one particular desk, he zoomed right in on the wheel of a car to show the small-type – like the PSI – was in place and legible. A ridiculous detail given you’ll never notice at 300km/h flying down from the heights of Mount Panorama. Then he said the following: "It takes six months to create a single car. It’s over-specced for PS4 Pro. So we are building for future versions of the console rather than the one we see today".

Also, one user (media outlet reporter) whom was at the CES asked about the hardware running the demo, they we're told "at this time, we're not at liberty to provide that information." Doesn't mean much, but don't kill the messenger.

As an FYI: Sony has done something like this similar in the past with Polyphony.

 

[chris1515]

Possibly related to the version from chris original post.

Polyphony over-specced Gran Turismo Sport for future 8K consoles


Also, one user (media outlet reporter) whom was at the CES asked about the hardware running the demo, they we're told "at this time, we're not at liberty to provide that information." Doesn't mean much, but don't kill the messenger.

As an FYI: Sony has done something like this similar in the past with Polyphony.

And not so long ago Power VR open the possibility to use it technology for company ready to pay for it. If the KD-tree construction problem is solved this is on short term the best technology. This is not as good as path tracing but much faster. And even faster than Whitted raytracing with better quality because it is able to render caustics...

 

[Nisaaru]

You know what I'm gonna officially tap out at least until MS' conference finishes, these never ending pastebin rumors are killing me softly here.

If they would actually be new paste rumours and not recycled ones

 

[Nisaaru]

Clearly PS5, first pastebin rumour states XBOX has larger lv1 cache for AI and such, 3rd paste bin says one has larger CPU portion for increased cache.


It says larger cache in two of the rumours, nothing about either CPU being more powerful, if both are clocked the same I doubt there will be any difference at all.

The Arcturus rumour with the SMT-3 setup and the massive L4/EDRam from a few months ago looked quite interesting in hindsight to me when rumours popped up about Zen3 supporting different thread settings. I would assume such a design would significantly help with the KDTree construction and if the data can also be processed by the GPU even better?

 

[AlNom]

You're not seriously entertaining the idea that they'd be utilizing IBM GF 14nm SOI to produce an IO die with lol-eDRAM for kmnljkkjkjkjk

 

[Nisaaru]

You're not seriously entertaining the idea that they'd be utilizing IBM GF 14nm SOI to produce an IO die with lol-eDRAM for kmnljkkjkjkjk

View attachment 3124

With AMD's chiplet design I can't really see why an eDRAM chiplet would be unthinkable. I would actually be surprised if AMD hasn't experimented with such designs already not just because Intel actually sells them but because it's a logical way to help integrated GPUs with DDR4.

 

[AlNom]

I'm just poking. It'd be a funny coincidence given "14nm" etc.

 

[iroboto]

Have we any information that it's even realtime? There's absolutely nothing about what we're seeing here! Could be a frickin' CGI render based on what's presented - a video demoing a TV with no qualifications in the description. It's very likely to be some random who saw this video and made the assumption it's PS5 - it's a nothing channel where you'd expect a proper tech site to cover something significant like a first public showing officially labelled PS5.

It's an irrelevant demo that could be running on 16 Titan RTX for all I know. But even then, it's still pretty neat to see the product come together assuming it is 8K @ 120fps, and not a completely fake video designed to trip people up.

I guess I'm more impressed by the output and not necessarily the hardware behind the output. But as many have pointed out, hard to see actual elements of ray tracing in here unfortunately, so not really sure what we're looking at.

 

[dobwal]

You're not seriously entertaining the idea that they'd be utilizing IBM GF 14nm SOI to produce an IO die with lol-eDRAM for kmnljkkjkjkjk

View attachment 3124

Didn’t somebody just post a Sony patent showing a design with an i/o processor with its own external memory?

 

[London Geezer]

It's an irrelevant demo that could be running on 16 Titan RTX for all I know. But even then, it's still pretty neat to see the product come together assuming it is 8K @ 120fps, and not a completely fake video designed to trip people up.

I guess I'm more impressed by the output and not necessarily the hardware behind the output. But as many have pointed out, hard to see actual elements of ray tracing in here unfortunately, so not really sure what we're looking at.

Yep. Pushing out 4 billion pixels per second is insane.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sorry, I tried to explain myself. All people coming like pitbull not even knowing what is Photon mapping.

You're making me angry with this. Why are you talking to us like we've no idea what photon mapping is, when the actual issue here is you have absolutely no idea what tech is on display, or even if the display is a real game, you are assuming it's a new super-performance technique, and are now preaching this wonderful new tech using this video as evidence of how awesome this new tech is instead of dealing with the real issue of confirming what the hell we're looking at.

I repeat how do you know this is even realtime and not just a video?!?!?

Look at this...
https://www.gtplanet.net/more-image...om-sonys-enormous-crystal-led-display-system/

Don’t expect this sort of raw power straight from the source for a while, however. Sony uses algorithms to up-res GT Sport gameplay for these jaw-dropping displays.

I don't know if that's true, or if that article is making an assumption. What I do know is nobody knows a single detail about this video, and it's ludicrous and frickin' neoGAF levels of fantasy thinking that people are attaching to what's an unknown. Flat-earther levels of dumb. UFO-fanatic levels of, "this video looks like a flying saucer and now I unquestionably believe!" levels of dumb. Where has a the B3D logic and rational thinking gone??

It's an irrelevant demo that could be running on 16 Titan RTX for all I know. But even then, it's still pretty neat to see the product come together assuming it is 8K @ 120fps, and not a completely fake video designed to trip people up.

It's a video designed to showcase the display. That's its only purpose - it's not a PS5 promo or reveal. Using a game is great for showing the potential benefits to interactivity at 120 Hz. It's not fake. It's just produced in a manner we don't know.

And yes, it's an amazing, glorious display! That's fabulous. The madness surrounding the interpretation of a demo video on it also amazing.

Yep. Pushing out 4 billion pixels per second is insane.

Did I miss the memo? Where is the evidence this is even realtime?! How come everybody but me knows this isn't a video that was a special replay mode rendered on a PS4 at one frame per second at 4K and upscaled to 8K? Or a concept render?

Why is this video taken at face value based on its user-given, uncorroborated title?

Or are you just talking about the TV outputting 8 billion pixels?

 

[London Geezer]

Did I miss the memo? Where is the evidence this is even realtime?! How come everybody but me knows this isn't a video that was a special replay mode rendered on a PS4 at one frame per second at 4K and upscaled to 8K? Or a concept render?

Why is this video taken at face value based on its user-given, uncorroborated title?

Or are you just talking about the TV outputting 8 billion pixels?

Wait, I'm confused. I agreed with you that it's pretty insane to expect this to be realtime on anything not running on some kind of alien tech, or multiple RTX GPUs, considering the GPUs would be outputting a grand total of 4 billion pixels every second.

Or is it 8Gpixel? 8k is 32 mega pixels * 120 = approx 4Gpixel per second, which would give us a frame buffer of... 15GB? 2GB? Not sure, I'm lost. And all of this "raytraced" (what exactly is being raytraced?).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Wait, I'm confused. I agreed with you that it's pretty insane to expect this to be realtime on anything not running on some kind of alien tech, or multiple RTX GPUs, considering the GPUs would be outputting a grand total of 4 billion pixels every second.

Or is it 8Gpixel? 8k is 32 mega pixels * 120 = approx 4Gpixel per second, which would give us a frame buffer of... 15GB? 2GB? Not sure, I'm lost. And all of this "raytraced" (what exactly is being raytraced?).

the top left corner says 7680x4320 @ 120hz, so 33 million pixels per frame, 4 billion pixels per second. Being displayed. We have no idea how many pixels are being rendered per second. It might well be zero, with this being a prerecorded/preconstructed video. We have no idea how the image is constructed - whether raytracing is involved, what hardware it was created on, whether it's realtime or not, what resolution is being rendered, both image-res and temporal res (video could be showcasing framerate interpolation tech). It might be a 4K60 GTSport replay upscaled.

The only reason to think it relates to PS5 is because it's Gran Turismo, and the guy posting the video labelled it as such. And if it is, why is the only report across the entire internet coming from this two-bit YT account? Why has Sony taken to demonstrating its incredible PS5 photon-mapping technology in a show no-one is attending and reporting on? Common sense tells us Sony aren't doing that, and so this is an unqualified video, not realtime and not demonstrating any PS5 technologies, instead just using the work of PD to create a demo video for showcasing this incredible display.

 

[chris1515]

You're making me angry with this. Why are you talking to us like we've no idea what photon mapping is, when the actual issue here is you have absolutely no idea what tech is on display, or even if the display is a real game, you are assuming it's a new super-performance technique, and are now preaching this wonderful new tech using this video as evidence of how awesome this new tech is instead of dealing with the real issue of confirming what the hell we're looking at.

I repeat how do you know this is even realtime and not just a video?!?!?

Look at this...
https://www.gtplanet.net/more-image...om-sonys-enormous-crystal-led-display-system/


I don't know if that's true, or if that article is making an assumption. What I do know is nobody knows a single detail about this video, and it's ludicrous and frickin' neoGAF levels of fantasy thinking that people are attaching to what's an unknown. Flat-earther levels of dumb. UFO-fanatic levels of, "this video looks like a flying saucer and now I unquestionably believe!" levels of dumb. Where has a the B3D logic and rational thinking gone??

It's a video designed to showcase the display. That's its only purpose - it's not a PS5 promo or reveal. Using a game is great for showing the potential benefits to interactivity at 120 Hz. It's not fake. It's just produced in a manner we don't know.

And yes, it's an amazing, glorious display! That's fabulous. The madness surrounding the interpretation of a demo video on it also amazing.

Did I miss the memo? Where is the evidence this is even realtime?! How come everybody but me knows this isn't a video that was a special replay mode rendered on a PS4 at one frame per second at 4K and upscaled to 8K? Or a concept render?

Why is this video taken at face value based on its user-given, uncorroborated title?

Or are you just talking about the TV outputting 8 billion pixels?

Where did I say this is a lonely PS5 I expect it to be multiple devkit like they did it multiple time before using multiple PS3 for example? And is this a video, yes 100% sure, this is not the first time they did it. But if I was 100% sure I would have post it in next generation topic. I post it here because I can't say at 100% this a PS5 devkit. This is what I think they did but this is my assumption.

Some people post something about CPU doing raytracing , I can post a video of GT Sport and thinking this is possible because if they use Photon Mapping this is possible using 4 PS5 if one PS5 is able to do 4k 120 fps HDR photon mapping rendering...

The biggest problem is is a PS5 is able to render GT Sport at 4k 120 fps with Photon mapping... We will know after the reveal for sure... If I was sure of myself I would have post it somewhere else...

After maybe This is 8 PS5 devkit and my assumption is false. This GT Sport is running at 2k at 120 fps on one PS5...

EDIT: The only things I am 100% sure there is no way they are using raytracing, they need someting much faster if it is a realtime footage video with global illumination if it is more than 1080p footage on a single machine...

OR this is 16 PS5 devkit

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why even discuss it as even being realtime? Why use it as a reference point for a possible rendering tech when there's zero evidence that it's doing anything special? If you want a discussion about the value of photon mapping and what that could achieve, go ahead and have one - it's a worthwhile discussion. But don't use this video or any other as a reference point without some validation of it as a reference point. How can we possibly discuss the merits of photon mapping to PS5 when we have literally no idea what made this video? It's totally non-sequitor. There's as much evidence that it's all voxels; would you use this as a starting point for talking about how to create GT in voxels?

 

[chris1515]

Why even discuss it as even being realtime? Why use it as a reference point for a possible rendering tech when there's zero evidence that it's doing anything special? If you want a discussion about the value of photon mapping and what that could achieve, go ahead and have one - it's a worthwhile discussion. But don't use this video or any other as a reference point without some validation of it as a reference point. How can we possibly discuss the merits of photon mapping to PS5 when we have literally no idea what made this video? It's totally non-sequitor. There's as much evidence that it's all voxels; would you use this as a starting point for talking about how to create GT in voxels?

Because this is not the first time Sony did this sort of thing in the link shortbread gives.

Also, one user (media outlet reporter) whom was at the CES asked about the hardware running the demo, they we're told "at this time, we're not at liberty to provide that information." Doesn't mean much, but don't kill the messenger.

They can say this is a prerendered GT Sport video and like this this is finished and this is done...

For Photon Mapping I am open to discussion because I was not very happy when Sony announced they use raytracing because it is slow* and I did not even understand the potential of Photon Mapping a few weeks ago and I was confuse why Nvidia did not use it long time ago until I understood they test it on static scene and that KD-tree generation is slow. I was knowing this problem before knowing Photon Mapping...

*Incoherent memory access in highly sensitive to perfomance console was not what I wanted... Imo Sony used two buzzword 8k and raytracing after the Wired interview. Now I have little more hope if they really use Photon Mapping... and the only buzzword is 8k... All machine will upscale to 8k...

 

[BRiT]

Photon Mapping should be its own thread in the Rendering Technology section or at the very least in the Console Technology section, if you want genuine discussions. https://forum.beyond3d.com/forums/rendering-technology-and-apis.40/ or https://forum.beyond3d.com/forums/console-technology.28/

I dont think it should not be buried in a baseless thread that will be locked once E3 happens, and respawned new afterwards.

 

[chris1515]

Photon Mapping should be its own thread in the Rendering Technology section or at the very least in the Console Technology section, if you want genuine discussions. https://forum.beyond3d.com/forums/rendering-technology-and-apis.40/ or https://forum.beyond3d.com/forums/console-technology.28/

I dont think it should not be buried in a baseless thread that will be locked once E3 happens, and respawned new afterwards.

I will post it in the rendering technolgy and api thread it looks like if this is really possible to do it, it will arrive everywhere. This a NVIDIA idea after all...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Because this is not the first time Sony did this sort of thing in the link shortbread gives.

Sony have also shown prerendered CGI's as simulated gameplay footage - KZ2, Motorstorm. There are no pointers as to what tech is being used here and nothing should be assumed. How foolish would be it to discuss photon mapping in relation to this video, and come up with all sorts of numbers explaining the creation of this video, only to find it's a CGI render?

I will post it in the rendering technolgy and api thread it looks like if this is really possible to do it, it will arrive everywhere. This a NVIDIA idea after all...

Please don't use this video though. Don't use any video not confirmed to be using photon mapping.

 

[chris1515]

Please don't use this video though. Don't use any video not confirmed to be using photon mapping.

I used only the Nvidia study, the Sony patent, and all other link