No more NPD numbers (group hug coming up!)

How many other things do we buy that we obsess over their sales numbers.
I just bought a 2007 Mustang,a much bigger and more expensive purchase than my console. I have no idea how many Mustangs were sold nor do I care.
It's always been a bit odd the preoccupation with sales. This just seems like a righting of the ship IMO.

Well actually, I dont follow cars much, but I do happen to know, the redesigned Mustangs have been of the few bright stars for Ford, selling very well, even basically prompting GM to bring back the Camaro soon. And again, I know that just through general osmosis, not following cars..so, you're kinda wrong, arguably.

But I'd say the closest corollary to the NPD thing is box office receipts, with maybe music sales and Tv ratings and the like a distant second. Box office is certainly a "big deal" to an extent. Especially with the summer blockbusters where it practically overshadows commentary on the movies themselves. So there are corollaries.

In fact, to the overall popularity, Movie grosses are FAR more known and mainstream than some NPD numbers. Heck there is whole forum about movie gross (boxofficemojo.com). NPD numbers are only known by hardcore video game junkies. The mainstream has less than no clue about them.

I'd say on the other hand, console boxes inspire more hardcore allegiances and fanboys than movies, though. That is a difference, in general.

As for Vgchartz, he doesn't just use NPD data and estimates. He does have his own retail sources. Which are basically probably mostly members from his forum who happen to, work at Gamestop or wherever, have access to limited store data. Maybe clerks and such, maybe some of them can even get up to district level data and the like. I know because I post on that forum he contacted me about being a source for him (though I was not in a position to supply him with numbers).

I just dont trust the reliability of his data at all. In fact, a Gaffers yesterday even mentioned they ought to do a scheme of feeding him bad data, just because they hate him so much, whether they will act out on this I dont know. But if they weren't joking..

Also funnily, I have seen David Riley has an account and has made at least a couple post on vgchartz forum (he also has a GAF account). Which I dont know, seems funny to me, since he supposedly hates the place so much.

On another topic, it is true that NPD never used to release the data. Nobody had ever said this, but I did seem to remember the media reporting NPD numbers was a new phenomenon. What used to happen, was somebody would "leak" the data to GAf, and other sources on the net, every month.

Basically what changed is, now NPD monitors GAF much more closely, and people seem a lot more aware that the numbers are contraband, whereas before it was just kinda, allowed. Now GAF is bigger, they cant get away with it, and NPD seems a lot more active on monitoring the internet. But I'm really, really curious to see, if the NPD data starts getting leaked at lesser forums, just as it did prior to the last ten months. Because I know a couple that will be prime candidates, and I will be on the lookout. Basically I'm just really interested in if NPD can keep the data secret. Heck, in the old days, much more data was posted, because hey, if it's all illegal, might as well post it all. If we get back to that, NPD will have shot itself in the foot with this move. However, the posters that used to leak the data like bunkum and Da Fonz, now seem gone from the internet. It'll all be very, very interesting to see how it goes down...and we dont have to wait long to find out, Nov 15 is the next NPD day.

We still get top 10 software, which should be good for discerning some hardware trends also.
 
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Maybe you would you be more interested in how well your car was selling if those sales were what determined the availability and quality of fuel available for it. Changes things, doesn't it? .

Not really,I think that's just an excuse we tell ourselves to justify the irrational obsession with console sales figures. I think people have their allegiances to a particular brand,want certain games from certain devs or want certain features at a certain price point. And those things more than anything determines the purchasing decision.
The page long fights that ensue after numbers are released should be enough to highlight that preoccupation with sales figure is more of an emotional thing than anything else.
 
Not really,I think that's just an excuse we tell ourselves to justify the irrational obsession with console sales figures. I think people have their allegiances to a particular brand,want certain games from certain devs or want certain features at a certain price point. And those things more than anything determines the purchasing decision.
The page long fights that ensue after numbers are released should be enough to highlight that preoccupation with sales figure is more of an emotional thing than anything else.

Actually I have to agree with Mr Corbo. I once chose a Saturn over a PS1, only to find the thing was practically obsolete and i never bought any games for it apart from the first 2 because...well...there weren't really any. Sales numbers are important for determining the health of a system. Nobody wants to invest in a device for doing something only to find it isn't supported anymore. All the factors you mention are valid too, but I probably wouldn't buy a PS3/Wii/360 if it was underperforming and I expected major support for it to cease in the near future, even if the rest of the criteria were pretty good
 
I for one always was looking forward to the middle part of the month to see the npd sales numbers, because this industry as a whole interests me and I sure hope the numbers leak fast, otherwise I need multiple group hugs.
 
Hopefully there is a "deep throat" out there that will pity us, what would the boards become if we didn't spend a week a month bitching about sales numbers? A lot less entertaining would be one thing...
 
I'm 100% sure the Beyond3d site staff members will pony up the cash to subscripe the NPD report for us to chew on.

Right?

:smile:
 
Hopefully there is a "deep throat" out there that will pity us, what would the boards become if we didn't spend a week a month bitching about sales numbers? A lot less entertaining would be one thing...

I doubt B3D can allow the numbers, even if they are leaked. They would be essentially copyrighted material. So discussion of the numbers in many places will be impossible, even if they do leak out. Unless they somehow spread around so much they are fair game, I guess. Which is the situation that existed before NPD began publically releasing the numbers ten months ago.

Personally I want to know the numbers regardless of whether we can discuss them, of course.


I have come to be more perceptive of the notion that Sony, behind the scenes, is behind this. If anything, think of how crushing reports of low NPD sales have been to Sony lately. Now think of them trying to market a console as a must have item in the face of that. It would be brutal.

NPD has given some hints that this is because of a console manufacturer. In a statement to Ars Technica, they said they will give the numbers again "if the hardware manufacturers allow it". Which does not jive with their previous company line that the hardware makers had nothing to do with it. They also said it was done to "protect" subscribers. Well, who are they protecting, and in what way? One obvious answer would be, Sony doesn't want people to know how bad the PS3 is doing. And I dont really blame Sony if that is the case, it would just be good business. I could be totally wrong on this, and for example, giving out even quarterly numbers (if indeed that comes to pass) would seem to somewhat nullify this theory. Or for example, changing course later as NPD has hinted at.

In the end, I can think of many reasons why any console hardware manufactor wouldn't want you to have the numbers. Especially if they are trailing at a particular time.


I think the other, equally as likely scenario is that NPD just wants to withhold as much information as possible from non-subscribers, so to encourage subscriptions.
 
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True. But as long as their numbers can't be trusted to be accurate it will stop them from being relevant.

NPD taking its numbers away makes VGC more relevant, which is a shame. People are going to use their numbers, simply people have a desire to know how the 360, PS3 and Wii are holding up against each other and people need fodder for their beliefs. Many will blindly trust their numbers and those more cynical of those numbers will have less ammo as there will be less opportunities to show how off VGC can be at times.
 
Many will blindly trust their numbers and those more cynical of those numbers will have less ammo as there will be less opportunities to show how off VGC can be at times.
Historically, how far off has VGC been when compared to NPD? I've heard that VGC replaces their guesses with NPD data when it comes out, but has anyone kept track of their original guesses?
 
Historically, how far off has VGC been when compared to NPD? I've heard that VGC replaces their guesses with NPD data when it comes out, but has anyone kept track of their original guesses?

They had been tracking this themselves once the NPDs were out for that period. Here are the news posts for the last couple of NPD periods.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=564

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=531

Edit: Oh yeah, VGC is getting hammered (at least relative to what their servers can handle) with about 850 people actively viewing the site at last check. It may be hard to connect.
 
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Keep your hugs to yourself! NPD shalleth be there!

http://wii.ign.com/articles/833/833375p1.html

November 7, 2007 - Yesterday the internet exploded with the news that the NPD Group would no longer be releasing monthly videogame sales data to the media. While it initially looked like the world may be at peace without sales data to fuel fanboy battles, the console wars will (for better or worse) be continuing.

The NPD Group is only halting the free data it gives out to general media. Outlets that pay for the data, like IGN, will continue to receive monthly sales figures. NPD told us it was a business decision to protect the research firm's interests.

So, not to worry. You can still look forward to monthly console wars here on IGN.
 
Well of course the ones that pay for the data continue to receive it... but can IGN for example publish the data in their web page? and if they can, how does the NPD decision to not publish their data to public actually make any difference in that situation?
 
Indeed. There must be caveats such as not releasing actual figures, much as we get for UK sales figures that only say about growth and positions, and never numbers (from Chart Track).
 
I wonder if "Feist Publications vs Rural Telephone Service" would invalidate NPD's legal claim to have copyright over its numbers. In this landmark case, the Supreme Court basically ruled that transcribed compilations of records are not subject to copyright. Copyrights of such nature get held up if the manner of arranging, explaining, or interpreting the data is original, but is NPD doing that?

Any ambiguity, of course, would be removed by them only publishing their results as part of a simple piece of software and covering everything under the software license. :D
 
If it has indeed happened at Sony's request, then it was a good move from them. It must be pretty demoralizing to try to do positive PR about a product when everyone can see how your actual monthly sales are suffering.
I think that if NPD would have released disappointing november sales for the PS3 then a lot of people would decide to delay their purchase from the holiday season to next spring or even later. Even if only hardcore games and such come to these forums, pretty much all media sites do have headlines about the sales data so many potential customers get informed about it.
 
Calling VGChartz "sociopathic" is sorta over the line, don't you think? As though it's abnormal for someone to make the best of the information he can get his hands on. If you release public numbers, don't accuse people of sociopathic behavior, for, you know, using them.
 
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