XGI Volari duo V8 Ultra german babelfished preview.

[Entropy]

The shop MAXPC (where the Volari prices came from) sell ATI and NV expensively IMO. It's always easy to say "Average Joe can get for 300$ a 9800PRO" so the Volari is too expensive, but did you even look at the price this shop is asking for a 9800 Pro? 569€
Of course the anti-XGI guys just want to ignore this important fact and are quick to use anything to flame without finding more info.

Parhelia makes an important point here.
Price variations between shops is very large, easily reaching 30% to 50%. Even though pricewatch lists $174 for a 9800np, the cheapest such card I saw on Manhattan a week ago was $300 w/o sales tax. Will the real price please stand up and raise a hand? Competition between outlets makes a huge difference, so a wide distribution is a necessity if prices are to be pushed downwards.

Comparing prices between countries makes the picture even messier.
The bias of these boards is such that all the discussion so far has been
a, based on the V8 Ultra
b, neglects the home market of XGI

Not only do we not have enough information yet to draw conclusions regarding price or price/performance, but we have to realize that the countries (and market segment) we represent may not be where XGI is trying hardest (or has the best chance) to be competitive.

Of course, once sufficient price data is available to make a good analysis, the Volaris will be yestardays news, and everyone will be speculating a few months ahead from that point.

 

[Ailuros]

Well we basically agree that HW is cheaper in the US.

"Average Joe can get for 300$ a 9800PRO" so the Volari is too expensive, but did you even look at the price this shop is asking for a 9800 Pro? 569€

http://www.maxpc.nl/N_grp_31_141-1.html

• Club3D XGI Volari V8Ultra D 256DDR2 VIVO
  
  429,00 euro
  
• Club3D ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128MB DVI/TV
  
  369,00 euro
  
• Club3D ATI Radeon 9800Pro 256MB DVI/TV
  
  529,00 euro
  
• Club3D ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB DDR2 VIVO
  
  589,00 euro
  
• Club3D ATI Radeon 9800 Pro All in wonder 128 MB
  
  
  539,00 euro

Of course the anti-XGI guys just want to ignore this important fact and are quick to use anything to flame without finding more info.

XGi's worst enemy is actually itself and it's policies, but that isn't any different with any other IHV out there.

Is everyone really that biased after all or should people start to think that it's unexcusable that BASIC features are broken even at preliminary testings? Even worse it's not a first occurance either.

 

[Sage]

though pricewatch lists $174 for a 9800np

OT, but just in case anyone got word of that and decided to go off and buy one you had better check their resellerratings.com rating at http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1813.html because It's not particularly spectacular.

 

[no_way]

And for now, XGI products (at least the V8 Duo) is a bad deal.

Amazing deductive powers. Indeed it appears to be a bad deal, its in beta and it hasnt hit the store shelves yet. Thanks for clearing that up.

EDIT: i realize i sounded pointlessly hostile here, but the quoted statement is really spreading FUD even before the product can enter the market. This is not what i'd call "playing nice".

 

[Dave Baumann]

Beta or not, you should have fundamental things such as trilinear working - basic texturing is the bedrock of the raster pipe.

There is a lot of ground to be made up in a very short period of time if this is to be vaguely competetive. They have yet to loose half their texture rate and banwidth when Trilinear is working correctly and currently, on any test that isn't one of the most commonly used benchmarks, they are performing lower than the 5600 Ultra. Thats a lot of ground to cover.

However, I would like to take a single V8 and compare it against a Duo.

 

[Quitch]

every computer stuff is cheaper in USA than in Europe, trust me I already checked.
Each time I go to USA I buy computer stuff there and stop buying here as they're much cheaper there than here.
The first time I saw the price difference my jaw opened wide and I couldn't believe my eyes.

Not only that, but I think you'll find the average US wage is higher, and the average cost of living is lower. Ah, to be in that wonderland of computer hardware

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And for now, XGI products (at least the V8 Duo) is a bad deal.

Amazing deductive powers. Indeed it appears to be a bad deal, its in beta and it hasnt hit the store shelves yet. Thanks for clearing that up.

EDIT: i realize i sounded pointlessly hostile here, but the quoted statement is really spreading FUD even before the product can enter the market. This is not what i'd call "playing nice".

Excuse me,

but 1) Someone accused me of being "anti-XGI" without "finding more info", when clearly the info WRT relative price is right there in black and white.

2) The only one's spreading FUD is XGI. They allowed the card to be previewed in it's current state. Currently I wouldn't touch an XGI V8 Duo with a 10 foot pole.

And right, it's not available on the market yet. All the more reason to be "pessimistic" about its chances on the market if/when it actually reaches the market.

 

[Bjorn]

2) The only one's spreading FUD is XGI. They allowed the card to be previewed in it's current state. Currently I wouldn't touch an XGI V8 Duo with a 10 foot pole.

And right, it's not available on the market yet. All the more reason to be "pessimistic" about its chances on the market if/when it actually reaches the market.

I agree. And i personally don't really understand what they had to gain by allowing reviews of it in it's current state.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Quitch, the US comes around the middle of the pack if it was an EU country for GDP per capita. Japan is highest at around 38,000
Swiss is 2nd around 32-34 the last I looked the US was around 25k
many EU countries where around this level or above. England/UK, Ireland and Spain however are 20k or below I think. I find it strange how hardware is so much cheaper in the US compared to the EU, do the EU have a high tariff on electronic goods?

 

[Ailuros]

With the danger that I might shoot myself again in the foot as with the VAT thingy:

...do the EU have a high tariff on electronic goods.

I think one could blame the EU's high taxation on imported products. I haven't looked at TV's for quite some time but a couple of years ago when I asked for a 21" SONY the salesman gave me the following options (ordered from highest price to lowest):

a) Made in Japan
b) Made in Germany
c) Made in France
d) Made in Spain

The price difference between (a) and (d) was ~70% if my memory doesn't betray me. I think nowadays they don't even import electronics anymore that get actually manufactured in the EU, because I'd say that very few would buy them. I fetched the spaniard back then (it was 4 my grandma anyway) and it has yet to have a single problem for years.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I agree. And i personally don't really understand what they had to gain by allowing reviews of it in it's current state.

To be fair, XGI is between a rock and a hard place. Everyone (including their board partners) wants to see some publicity for their products. On the other hand, they don't want negative publicity.

This really just underscores exactly how hard it is to break into this market...especially the high-end. I don't want to come off as overly harsh toward XGI. I really do commend them for going after the market, and I hope they continue to do so. This doesn't mean I won't call it as I see it when it comes to product recommendations. (And yes, my final judgement won't be known until they actually ship the final product.)

I get the feeling that XGI (perhaps) under estimated what it takes on the software side of things. My best guess is that the current Volari line (at least the high end) is going to be a bust. But hopefully, it will get XGI enough exposure to the market to at least build upon. And maybe in one or two generations, with experience in driver and developer support, they could really directly compete.

I just hope their lower end parts sell well enough to keep them in the business that long.

 

[Nappe1]

Remember everyone, that XGI's plan is to be market leader in 2007. NOT next year. (and I doubt they have been counting only for Volari series. They must have pretty good funding provided so that they can even talk about targets as far as five years ahead.)

don't try to make Volari look like perfect card and also don't either make it look like disapointment if it falls behind market leaders right now.

as a fact, it is their entry level card to same league as ATI and nVidia. I would have been really suprised if it stomped the competition totally. How many years it took for ATI from Radeon climbing on top? three, right?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Remember everyone, that XGI's plan is to be market leader in 2007. NOT next year.

Agreed. But if you want to be the market leader by 2007, then you better have a competitive part out soon.

(and I doubt they have been counting only for Volari series. They must have pretty good funding provided so that they can even talk about targets as far as five years ahead.)

Possibly, yes. But they are also be counting on some type of revenue from their parts. In fact, I believe they want to be "profitiable" either in 2004 or 2005 latest.

don't try to make Volari look like perfect card...

I don't hink anyone has.

and also don't either make it look like disapointment if it falls behind market leaders right now.

Disappointment is a combination of price / performance. Not being performance and/or feature competitive with the market leaders is one thing, and is completely understandable. However, not being priced accoprdingly is what would make it a disappointment.

Again, final judgement will be made when it ships.

as a fact, it is their entry level card to same league as ATI and nVidia.

Link?

How many years it took for ATI from Radeon climbing on top? three, right?

Right...but prior to that, their parts were priced appropriately. That is, notably less than the competitive nVidia / 3dfx parts.

 

[Nappe1]

Remember everyone, that XGI's plan is to be market leader in 2007. NOT next year.

Agreed. But if you want to be the market leader by 2007, then you better have a competitive part out soon.

(and I doubt they have been counting only for Volari series. They must have pretty good funding provided so that they can even talk about targets as far as five years ahead.)

Possibly, yes. But they are also be counting on some type of revenue from their parts. In fact, I believe they want to be "profitiable" either in 2004 or 2005 latest.

don't try to make Volari look like perfect card...

I don't hink anyone has.

and also don't either make it look like disapointment if it falls behind market leaders right now.

Disappointment is a combination of price / performance. Not being performance and/or feature competitive with the market leaders is one thing, and is completely understandable. However, not being priced accoprdingly is what would make it a disappointment.

Again, final judgement will be made when it ships.

as a fact, it is their entry level card to same league as ATI and nVidia.

Link?

How many years it took for ATI from Radeon climbing on top? three, right?

Right...but prior to that, their parts were priced appropriately. That is, notably less than the competitive nVidia / 3dfx parts.

EDIT: in fact here Radeon 64 ViVo cost around the same as GeForce 2 GTS. Not less. and 32MB All-In-Wonder version (that I had) costed around the same as Geforce 2 Ultra.

and how about waiting shipping price then? here 5800 Ultras were priced around 700-800 Euros as "coming soon" prices, though those rare ones sold on delivery was around 150 Euros lower. the point is that we really don't have exact prices for europe nor america yet.

and forget that "level" -word from the "as a fact, it is their entry level card to same league as ATI and nVidia." -sentence. (I really don't remember writing that one, but it is there so it must be some sort of slip...) Now it should make much more sense.



and oh, I wouldn't suprise if XGI would price their cards so much lower in europe that retail prices in total would be pretty close to equal on both continents. (and that would be exceptional)