Xenon info?

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Reverend

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I hope no one will be angry with me if I say I don't have the time to do searches about this... but can anyone summarize (the important details) what appears to be the more-or-less finalized Xenon specs? Also, how important is the hardware/software side in relation to PC/Windows compatibility?

Has to do with my developer relations stuff. Thanks.
 
Ok, here's the "rumors" that i personally heard from PR guys and and few developers:

  • There might be 2 type of Xenon, Xenon and the Xenon Hard Drive, the Xenon HD might have backward compatibility (MS is trying to make it work without Nvidia "help"). No XenonPC to be found.

    The R500 cards are on their way to replace the actual cards, but the devkits are still powered by the dual PPC 970 (G5).

    All games must render at 720p minimum (this is subject to change, though).

    There's ~10MB of EDRAM (Now i can't tell if it's eDRAM, as in embedded, or EDRAM as in enhanced) for the XeGPU (R500).

    The industrial design of the case will be more "sober" with regards to the actual Xbox design, it'll be more "classy".

Now here's the rumors from the forum that i can remember:

  • The CPU, XeCPU is a licensed IBM IP, IBM developed it using 3 Two way PPC cores (Which ones has yet to be determined).The cores share one L2 cache.

    The GPU, XeGPU, a licensed Ati IP, is supossed to be SM3.0+ , it's also assumed to have 8 pipelines, and 48 shader units. There's rumors about Unified Shader model.

    There's a video scaler that change the output resolution without further code needed.

    There's 256 to 512MB of RAM (UMA).

    The MCP is provided by SIS, we have little to none info about it.

    There might be no discrete sound chip, the sound would handle by the XeCPU.

    The Xenon will use simple DVD drive, but a HD-DVD drive solution has not been ruled out.

That's all i can remember for the moment. Hope it helps.

And about the PC/Xenon relation, with XNA, the new Microsoft developement platform, MS want to blur the line existing between the developement of a PC game and the developement of a Xenon game.
Middleware and hardware abstraction levels aside, here's an example of this new trend, the PC gamepads will be "unified" in terms of number of buttons and axes, the model gamepad will be the Xenon gamepad/accessories which are supposed to be usable on the PC too.
Also, Longhorn will swith to a "light" version mode while playing videogames, some sort of videogame OS.

Important note, you won't be able to directly play Xenon games on PC, nor play PC games on Xenon.

At first sight people thought that Xenon will ressemble to a PC, but the more we learn about Longhorn/WGF/XNA and the more it look like it's the PC that's going to ressemble the Xenon. :LOL:
 
Thanks. That's helpful. In time, and as I wish and/or be permitted to do so, I may post comments offered by MS and developers (Carmack et al included) on Xenon and the related hw/sw compatability topic I mentioned.
 
I know this is not a summary, but may prove helpful to you in some way.

Xenon Hardware Overview

By Pete Isensee, Development Lead, Xbox Advanced Technology Group

This documentation is an early release of the final documentation, which may be changed substantially prior to final commercial release, and is confidential and proprietary information of MS Corporation. It is disclosed pursuant to a nondisclosure agreement between the recipient and MS.
“Xenon†is the code name for the successor to the Xbox® game console from MS. Xenon is expected to launch in 2005. This white paper is designed to provide a brief overview of the primary hardware features of the console from a game developer’s standpoint.

Caveats
In some cases, sizes, speeds, and other details of the Xenon console have not been finalized. Values not yet finalized are identified with a “+†sign, indicating that the numbers may be larger than indicated here. At the time of this writing, the final console is many months from entering production. Based on our experience with Xbox, it’s likely that some of this information will change slightly for the final console.

For additional information on various hardware components, see the other relevant white papers.

Hardware Goals
Xenon was designed with the following goals in mind:

•Focus on innovation in silicon, particularly features that game developers need. Although all Xenon hardware components are technologically advanced, the hardware engineering effort has concentrated on digital performance in the CPU and GPU.

•Maximize general purpose processing performance rather than fixed-function hardware. This focus on general purpose processing puts the power into the Xenon software libraries and tools. Rather than being hamstrung by particular hardware designs, software libraries can support the latest and most efficient techniques.

•Eliminate the performance issues of the past. On Xbox, the primary bottlenecks were memory and CPU bandwidth. Xenon does not have these limitations.

Basic Hardware Specifications

Xenon is powered by a 3.5+ GHz IBM PowerPC processor and a 500+ MHz ATI graphics processor. Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory. Xenon runs a custom operating system based on MS® Windows NT®, similar to the Xbox operating system. The graphics interface is a superset of MS® Direct3D® version 9.0.
CPU

The Xenon CPU is a custom processor based on PowerPC technology. The CPU includes three independent processors (cores) on a single die. Each core runs at 3.5+ GHz. The Xenon CPU can issue two instructions per clock cycle per core. At peak performance, Xenon can issue 21 billion instructions per second.

The Xenon CPU was designed by IBM in close consultation with the Xbox team, leading to a number of revolutionary additions, including a dot product instruction for extremely fast vector math and custom security features built directly into the silicon to prevent piracy and hacking.

Each core has two symmetric hardware threads (SMT), for a total of six hardware threads available to games. Not only does the Xenon CPU include the standard set of PowerPC integer and floating-point registers (one set per hardware thread), the Xenon CPU also includes 128 vector (VMX) registers per hardware thread. This astounding number of registers can drastically improve the speed of common mathematical operations.

Each of the three cores includes a 32-KB L1 instruction cache and a 32-KB L1 data cache. The three cores share a 1-MB L2 cache. The L2 cache can be locked down in segments to improve performance. The L2 cache also has the very unusual feature of being directly readable from the GPU, which allows the GPU to consume geometry and texture data from L2 and main memory simultaneously.
Xenon CPU instructions are exposed to games through compiler intrinsics, allowing developers to access the power of the chip using C language notation.
GPU

The Xenon GPU is a custom 500+ MHz graphics processor from ATI. The shader core has 48 Arithmetic Logic Units (ALUs) that can execute 64 simultaneous threads on groups of 64 vertices or pixels. ALUs are automatically and dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex processing depending on load. The ALUs can each perform one vector and one scalar operation per clock cycle, for a total of 96 shader operations per clock cycle. Texture loads can be done in parallel to ALU operations. At peak performance, the GPU can issue 48 billion shader operations per second.

The GPU has a peak pixel fill rate of 4+ gigapixels/sec (16 gigasamples/sec with 4× antialiasing). The peak vertex rate is 500+ million vertices/sec. The peak triangle rate is 500+ million triangles/sec. The interesting point about all of these values is that they’re not just theoretical—they are attainable with nontrivial shaders.

Xenon is designed for high-definition output. Included directly on the GPU die is 10+ MB of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM). A 720p frame buffer fits very nicely here. Larger frame buffers are also possible because of hardware-accelerated partitioning and predicated rendering that has little cost other than additional vertex processing. Along with the extremely fast EDRAM, the GPU also includes hardware instructions for alpha blending, z-test, and antialiasing.

The Xenon graphics architecture is a unique design that implements a superset of Direct3D version 9.0. It includes a number of important extensions, including additional compressed texture formats and a flexible tessellation engine. Xenon not only supports high-level shading language (HLSL) model 3.0 for vertex and pixel shaders but also includes advanced shader features well beyond model 3.0. For instance, shaders use 32-bit IEEE floating-point math throughout. Vertex shaders can fetch from textures, and pixel shaders can fetch from vertex streams. Xenon shaders also have the unique ability to directly access main memory, allowing techniques that have never before been possible.

As with Xbox, Xenon will support precompiled push buffers (“command buffers†in Xenon terminology), but to a much greater extent than the Xbox console does. The Xbox team is exposing and documenting the command buffer format so that games are able to harness the GPU much more effectively.

In addition to an extremely powerful GPU, Xenon also includes a very high-quality resize filter. This filter allows consumers to choose whatever output mode they desire. Xenon automatically scales the game’s output buffer to the consumer-chosen resolution.

Memory and Bandwidth
Xenon has 256+ MB of unified memory, equally accessible to both the GPU and CPU. The main memory controller resides on the GPU (the same as in the Xbox architecture). It has 22.4+ GB/sec aggregate bandwidth to RAM, distributed between reads and writes. Aggregate means that the bandwidth may be used for all reading or all writing or any combination of the two. Translated into game performance, the GPU can consume a 512×512×32-bpp texture in only 47 microseconds.

The front side bus (FSB) bandwidth peak is 10.8 GB/sec for reads and 10.8 GB/sec for writes, over 20 times faster than for Xbox. Note that the 22.4+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth is shared between the CPU and GPU. If, for example, the CPU is using 2 GB/sec for reading and 1 GB/sec for writing on the FSB, the GPU has 19.4+ GB/sec available for accessing RAM.

Eight pixels (where each pixel is color plus z = 8 bytes) can be sent to the EDRAM every GPU clock cycle, for an EDRAM write bandwidth of 32 GB/sec. Each of these pixels can be expanded through multisampling to 4 samples, for up to 32 multisampled pixel samples per clock cycle. With alpha blending, z-test, and z-write enabled, this is equivalent to having 256 GB/sec of effective bandwidth! The important thing is that frame buffer bandwidth will never slow down the Xenon GPU.

Audio
The Xenon CPU is a superb processor for audio, particularly with its massive mathematical horsepower and vector register set. The Xenon CPU can process and encode hundreds of audio channels with sophisticated per-voice and global effects, all while using a fraction of the power of a single CPU core.

The Xenon system south bridge also contains a key hardware component for audio—XMA decompression. XMA is the native Xenon compressed audio format, based on the WMA Pro architecture. XMA provides sound quality higher than ADPCM at even better compression ratios, typically 6:1–12:1. The south bridge contains a full silicon implementation of the XMA decompression algorithm, including support for multichannel XMA sources. XMA is processed by the south bridge into standard PCM format in RAM. All other sound processing (sample rate conversion, filtering, effects, mixing, and multispeaker encoding) happens on the Xenon CPU.

The lowest-level Xenon audio software layer is XAudio, a new API designed for optimal digital signal processing. The Xbox Audio Creation Tool (XACT) API from Xbox is also supported, along with new features such as conditional events, improved parameter control, and a more flexible 3D audio model.
Input/Output

As with Xbox, Xenon is designed to be a multiplayer console. It has built-in networking support including an Ethernet 10/100-BaseT port. It supports up to four controllers. From an audio/video standpoint, Xenon will support all the same formats as Xbox, including multiple high-definition formats up through 1080i, plus VGA output.

In order to provide greater flexibility and support a wider variety of attached devices, the Xenon console includes standard USB 2.0 ports. This feature allows the console to potentially host storage devices, cameras, microphones, and other devices.

Storage
The Xenon console is designed around a larger world view of storage than Xbox was. Games will have access to a variety of storage devices, including connected devices (memory units, USB storage) and remote devices (networked PCs, Xbox Liveâ„¢). At the time of this writing, the decision to include a built-in hard disk in every Xenon console has not been made. If a hard disk is not included in every console, it will certainly be available as an integrated add-on component.

Xenon supports up to two attached memory units (MUs). MUs are connected directly to the console, not to controllers as on Xbox. The initial size of the MUs is 64 MB, although larger MUs may be available in the future. MU throughput is expected to be around 8 MB/sec for reads and 1 MB/sec for writes.

The Xenon game disc drive is a 12× DVD, with an expected outer edge throughput of 16+ MB/sec. Latency is expected to be in the neighborhood of 100 ms. The media format will be similar to Xbox, with approximately 6 GB of usable space on the disk. As on Xbox, media will be stored on a single side in two 3 GB layers.

Industrial Design
The Xenon industrial design process is well under way, but the final look of the box has not been determined. The Xenon console will be smaller than the Xbox console.
The standard Xenon controller will have a look and feel similar to the Xbox controller. The primary changes are the removal of the Black and White buttons and the addition of shoulder buttons. The triggers, thumbsticks, D-pad, and primary buttons are essentially unchanged. The controller will support vibration.

Xenon Development Kit
The Xenon development environment follows the same model as for Xbox. Game development occurs on the PC. The resulting executable image is loaded by the Xenon development kit and remotely debugged on the PC. MS® Visual Studio® version 7.1 continues as the development environment for Xenon.

The Xenon compiler is based on a custom PowerPC back end and the latest MS® Visual C++® front end. The back end uses technology developed at MS for Windows NT on PowerPC. The Xenon software group includes a dedicated team of compiler engineers updating the compiler to support Xenon-specific CPU extensions. This team is also heavily focused on optimization work.
The Xenon development kit will include accurate DVD emulation technology to allow developers to very precisely gauge the effects of the retail console disc drive.

Miscellaneous Xenon Hardware Notes

Some additional notes:
•Xenon is a big-endian system. Both the CPU and GPU process memory in big-endian mode. Games ported from little-endian systems such as the Xbox or PC need to account for this in their game asset pipeline.

•Tapping into the power of the CPU is a daunting task. Writing multithreaded game engines is not trivial. Xenon system software is designed to take advantage of this processing power wherever possible. The Xbox Advanced Technology Group (ATG) is also exploring a variety of techniques for offloading graphics work to the CPU.

•People often ask if Xenon can be backward compatible with Xbox. Although the architecture of the two consoles is quite different, Xenon has the processing power to emulate Xbox. Whether Xenon will be backward compatible involves a variety of factors, not the least of which is the massive development and testing effort required to allow Xbox games run on Xenon.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=231928
 
Alright, seriously, someone digest this for me, what does all this mean in terms of graphics, how powerful is Xenon in relation to Xbox, and what sort of graphics should I expect?

I'm guessing that Elder Scrolls Oblivion is only a small taste of what to expect, that in fact, its not even close to the theoretical maximum of the Xenon, and dammit that's spiffy.
 
Alright, seriously, someone digest this for me, what does all this mean in terms of graphics, how powerful is Xenon in relation to Xbox, and what sort of graphics should I expect?

well I can't say for certain. but I would expect at least a leap like Nintendo64 to Dreamcast, for the leap from Xbox to Xenon. (and i'm not basing that on the above info).

I'm guessing that Elder Scrolls Oblivion is only a small taste of what to expect, that in fact, its not even close to the theoretical maximum of the Xenon, and dammit that's spiffy

I'd agree completely.
 
how powerful is Xenon in relation to Xbox

A lot bigger jump than PS1 to DC, by looking at that article.

It has tesselator engine.

64 vertices in flight, 96 shaders per clock, @500 MHz will give around 384 GFLOPS.

And the CPUs seems to be capable of 160 GFLOPS @3.5GHz. Its a pretty nice improvement over Xbox.
 
How do you quantify "a lot bigger jump from PS1 to DC"?

I think the improvements will be large, very large, but saying "like N64 to DC" or whatever sounds a bit... useless?

We know Xenon will produce (much?) better graphics than we currently see in HL2 or Doom3, but no one knows the actual level it will reach. I think something that looks much better than HL2 is yummy already in my head.
 
london-boy said:
How do you quantify "a lot bigger jump from PS1 to DC"?

I think the improvements will be large, very large, but saying "like N64 to DC" or whatever sounds a bit... useless?

We know Xenon will produce (much?) better graphics than we currently see in HL2 or Doom3, but no one knows the actual level it will reach. I think something that looks much better than HL2 is yummy already in my head.

I'd like to say that the xenon at launch will be offering everquest 2 lvl graphics at maximum settings. To give u an idea , 2 6800ultra extremes in sli mode with a 4ghz p4 is only getting 20fps in those settings at 1027x768 with no fsaa or aniso and 2 gigs of ddr 2 ram.

Later in its life time it will be doing graphics above unreal 3 engine lvl .
 
Qroach said:
It would do better than that. The PC will have bottlenecks that xenon probably won't.

Lots more RAM though. Which i expect will still be a problem in the next gen. And the next one. And the next one.
 
I'm keeping my expectations low (Edit: though not as low as jvd :oops: )
If we take the "Elder Scrolls Oblivion" as an example, as it's the only game that has been "hyped" as next gen and we've seen [concept]pictures of it.

I say that is about what we'll see on next gen xbox.
Still images don't of course tell much, but add to those images good quality character and world animation, weather and lighting effects and all this with stable framerate above 30 fps.


Of course, that is at launch. 2-3 years from next gen xbox launch, we'll see graphically richer games, but with lower framerate and worse animation ;)
 
I think that with the release of Half Life 2 (and many other games too), physics and animation will go up in the priorities of developers. Or at least we can hope...
 
I expect RAM and the level of artistic ability on behalf of the developers to be the main limits on graphics next gen.

Of course I'm not expecting the hardware to reach the utopian "toy story level" which has been promised repeatedly since the original Geforce was released no matter HOW talented developers are, though I guess it could be faked close enough on Xenon to pass muster by at least laymen if not experts.

To actually CREATE superior graphics though, well that is hard enough already, many titles on today's consoles look uninspired either because the actual content designers are unimaginative (expect T2k to say something about id Software here :LOL:), or because the game director doesn't have a focused view about how the game world should look like. There's also performance limitations today of course, but I think expecting things to get EASIER for the game makers just because hardware becomes 10x, 100x, whatever times more powerful is basically flawed. 2x more powerful - sure. That would make things easier. 4x more, okay now we're talking! But upwards of 100x or perhaps even more... That's something else. It will take talent just to find use for all that power. :p
 
If we can even get the graphics level of prerendered videos on the PS1, that would represent a substantial leap over this generation.

How would you get better than HL2 graphics without a big jump in resolution? Would even 720p be enough of a jump in resolution?

If they really come out with two configurations, how much would they price the hard drive model and would that be the only one which is backwards-compatible?

And if Xenon is going to offer HDTV resolutions for gaming, they pretty much have to offer HDTV resolutions for movie playback, no?
 
wco81 said:
If we can even get the graphics level of prerendered videos on the PS1, that would represent a substantial leap over this generation.

How would you get better than HL2 graphics without a big jump in resolution? Would even 720p be enough of a jump in resolution?

R U KIDDING?
Look at LOTR DVD (or even just look at any program on TV) then come back to me saying we can only improve on resolution ;)
 
So you're talking about photo-realistic textures?

Or rather, cinema-quality CG in real-time?

Is that a realistic or even a plausible expectation in the next gen?
 
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