Wolfenstein 360 Vid!

Platon said:
Maybe, I haven't been all too interested in QW so I haven't looked into to it in great detail, I have seen a few screens and that is it, but from what I saw I wouldn't say that it is having huge/open levels...

uh....
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/748/748377/img_2798697.html
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/748/748377/img_2798698.html
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/748/748377/img_2973414.html

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/748/748377/vids_1.html


If that isn't huge and open, then no game is huge and open.
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
Acert, OpenGL is perfectly viable on Windows. The drivers MS is providing are layered over DX, true, but this has NO effect on gaming it means the fancy effects Aero uses MIGHT run like crap though. Just as it has always been NVidia and now I guess ATi will provide their own drivers for OpenGL, which have always been vastly better than what MS provides, so I think it's just silly that you think Vista is gonna kill off OpenGL.
Good to know.

What I had gathered from the B3D thread on the issue is that OpenGL is going to need to run over DX and that most likely will impact performance and could be a big pain. I guess I was wrong on that ;) Although I trust MS on this: They will make DX, their app, run the "best" they can... which may oddly not be a positive for any other graphic layers trying to work on top. If you get my drift ;) I think DX10 is MS's effort to move things their own direction as a "platform". Almost all PC devs use DX now, so offering "new features" as a reason to break with the rest of the industry seems pretty "business savvy". Obviously as Linux grows and Mac moving over to x86 trying to steer developers toward their platform is good business sense and is one of the few ways they can compete without getting the DoJ on their back. But like you said this may be all moot if OpenGL runs well (which seems to be some conflict on that answer).

As for the vendors... since ATI owns a decent chunk of the graphics world and now has close ties with NV, looking at their OpenGL record... I wonder if running the risk, as a dev, choosing OpenGL if ATI support stinks. It allows Linux and Mac support, but I am sure ATI PC customers outweigh Linux/Mac users by magnituted. Of course this is only conjecture... ATI's OpenGL drivers may be great.
 
Metalgearih said:
WTF? I said its my opinion so get the F off my back awrite. What are you, you pick up a target and then try to act all smart over them. Jeez, don't make new members feel like they stepped on a landmine. I'll state what I want to say and compare. I wasn't blatantly claiming all that. I just said it's what it seems. Get a grip of yourself , I'm not here to pick a fight with you. My post wasn't an attack on you. Take it easy.

As you're a reasonably new member please allow me to point out just a few things of which you should probably take note.

Beyond3d is and has historically been a very active, predominantly accurate and careful forum for the discussion of technical information. The site prides itself on the accuracy of its information and the ability for (the vast majority of) its members to discuss the relative merits and dis-merits of hardware, software and other items with clarity, intellect and on the whole a (mostly) balanced view-point.

While it is perfectly obvious what you were trying to get at with regards to your responses to Acert, I will note that one of the key issues Beyond3d's forums is having to cope with more recently is the regular derailment of threads into far less intelligent and ultimately far less interesting diatribes on the counter-merits of specific consoles (it's the consoles forum that suffers most anyway) regardless of the original topic of conversation. It is for this reason that Acert (semi-justifiably, just not tempered by your lack of history in these forums) responded in the way he did, though he was again mostly correct in his ascertions once again.

Ultimately, this thread was and is about John Carmack's ascertion that, for him, the X360 is now a better development platform than the PC, to bring PS3 into that discussion (anywhere other than maybe "Could PS3 potentially be another viable alternative were a developer to move away from PC development?") and to suggest that Carmack's decision could be based on anything other than purely his desire to work in the best environment for his needs is to derail the thread and is certainly not desirable here.

Anyway, I hope that explains this thread and Acert's posts a little, please have a quick look through the stickies at the top of the forum for a bit more of an explanation of posting etiquette here and enjoy the forums.
 
c0_re said:
OH Please Carmack doesn't need to kiss up to anyone especially Microsoft, he's one of the most brilliant engine coders of our time(This guy almost wrote Doom and Quake engines single handedly for gods sake) he's just happy someone is providing tools that makes game development easier instead of harder. Sony has a LONG LONG LONG way to go as far as making development tools, about 10 years by my count in comparison to Microshaft.

but Sony doesn't make development tools..
 
Can we keep this thread on topic? Please?
Let's not reply to post (which shouldn't have been replied to anyway) from 2 pages ago.
 
::ahem::

Would anyone, by any chance, know what tools on the 360 Carmack my be talking about? I know consoles tend to have nice performance analusis tools--which are actually very usefull in a closed box--but overall I thought the 360 and PC used the same basic tools. Is MS trickling out stuff from the XNA initiative to 360 devs early? My father (and one of my co-developers) are MSDNs and they get a lot of nice stuff early.
 
To actually comment on the video...

From what I could see, it looked great. I like that atmosphere. Gritty, Creepy, Iron Cross type atmosphere. Can't lose with that. :D
 
Acert93 said:
Would anyone, by any chance, know what tools on the 360 Carmack my be talking about? I know consoles tend to have nice performance analusis tools--which are actually very usefull in a closed box--but overall I thought the 360 and PC used the same basic tools. Is MS trickling out stuff from the XNA initiative to 360 devs early? My father (and one of my co-developers) are MSDNs and they get a lot of nice stuff early.

Tim Sweeney mentioned to me that XNA includes, among other things, the DX API and their PIX performance analysis tools and are available for all platforms Microsoft supports (I assume Windows, Xbox and Microsoft Phone). He specifically confirmed one of XNA's goals as allowing developers to targetting many platforms from a single source code base.

As for timeframe for release the impression I got from him is that although MS will be releasing XNA next year (possibly as a rolling release), Microsoft has facilitated it to some developers already.
 
robofunk said:
I think it's only windowed apps that are written in OpenGL that you have to worry about with Vista.

e.g. the editors developers use to make the actual games.
 
Mordenkainen said:
Tim Sweeney mentioned to me that XNA includes, among other things, the DX API and their PIX performance analysis tools and are available for all platforms Microsoft supports (I assume Windows, Xbox and Microsoft Phone). He specifically confirmed one of XNA's goals as allowing developers to targetting many platforms from a single source code base.

As for timeframe for release the impression I got from him is that although MS will be releasing XNA next year (possibly as a rolling release), Microsoft has facilitated it to some developers already.
Maaaaaan Mordenkainen! You are on your game! Thanks! And thanks for all the clarifications in this thread, your have been very helpful.
 
I dunno. The way I understood it, things are more along the line of the generic windows drivers for OpenGL would only affect those programs that made specifc use of windows GUI functions. So, things like windows (not the OS the windows themselves) with aero on at fullblast or IE or even perhaps word would potentially be affected. However, program that don't depend on windows for their GUIs could rely on alternate drivers from say NVidia. Games, obviously, being the most immediate example. Besides, most high-end graphics stuff is on Linux workstations now-a-days, and that's where OpenGL shines and is most important, no?
 
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