Will PS3 HDD really include Linux?

[bobthebub]

I recall Ken's statement about Linux being included on the PS3 HDD and much as I would like to see it I can't help thinking Sony will backtrack on this.

Sony are fundamentally a CE company and that means providing proucts that are simple to use, easy to maintain and minimise support costs .

Linux (as standard) on the HDD would open up a hornets nest for them in terms of supportability unless it was executed briliiantly and it "may" present a fairly easy attack vector for hackers.

I can see Sony Pushing into this arena at some point, perhaps with a dedicated cell home workstation a la Mac Mini and I do think it's a good time to attack Microsoft on this front with Apple being resurgent and Vista looking like an overblown & hardware intensive solution to a problem few people are asking, but I question whether PS3 HDD Linux is the way forward.

How do people rate the chances of us getting Linux on the HDD as standard? and if we do get it how do you think it might be packaged, locked down features & functionality or the whole hog?

 

[dukmahsik]

i'd say 0%

 

[Bohdy]

PS3 HD will be packed with Googlenix and a full suite of Office and Multimedia applications. This is 100% confirmed by version

just kidding

 

[pcostabel]

They sold the Linux kit for the PS2 and it didn't cause any problems with piracy. OTOH, PSPs don't have any Linux kit and yet piracy is widespread.

 

[bobthebub]

They sold the Linux kit for the PS2 and it didn't cause any problems with piracy. OTOH, PSPs don't have any Linux kit and yet piracy is widespread.

True, but the linux Kit was fairly low volume, if exploits had been hound that required a PS2 HDD & Linux Kit then few people could have used them, different story if the HDD is a common option and all them have Linux.

One more thing against the the Linux HDD would be that many people might buy a PS3 as a general purpose PC which would kill Sony if they didn't get payback in terms of game sales on the subsidies required to shift the box.

Still, I would love to hear a compelling argument for them bundling Linux.

 

[one]

Just FYI, the older discussion on the same subject here...
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=611040

Sony are fundamentally a CE company and that means providing proucts that are simple to use, easy to maintain and minimise support costs .

As for the PS2 Linux Kit, only questions about Sony related parts are accepted at Sony support centers. In other words, practically 99% of the softwares on it, all Freeware and Open Source software running on PS2 Linux such as Linux kernel, Mozilla web browser, X-windows, gcc, etc. are provided "as is" without any kind of warranty and support, which is typical for the Open Source community.

 

[one]

One more thing against the the Linux HDD would be that many people might buy a PS3 as a general purpose PC which would kill Sony if they didn't get payback in terms of game sales on the subsidies required to shift the box.

PSP has many non-gaming functions including a web browser.

 

[London Geezer]

PS3 HD will be packed with Googlenix and a full suite of Office and Multimedia applications. This is 100% confirmed by version

just kidding

He probably has a schematic about that. With SPEs attached to the Hard Drive too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony are fundamentally a CE company

Huh?
http://www.sonypictures.com/
http://www.sonymusic.com/home.html
http://www.station.sony.com/en/
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=computers&Dept=computers
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/index.shtml

 

[bobthebub]

Just FYI, the older discussion on the same subject here...
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=611040

Thanks for the link, I was aware there had a been a fair bit of discussion around this but I didin't think there had been much said for a while and It seems worth revisiitng to me.

There are 2 reasons I have been pondering PS3 Linux recently.

1) The price of current hardware - top of the line CPU's & GPU's have rocketed in price recently and they will struggle with the latest games in 2 years time it's becoming a rich man's game.

2) Vista,
I watched video of Bill G at CES on Vista - I wasn't wowed.
I am on the Vista Beta Program - I am not wowed
I have spoken to MS people recently about Vista - I don't get the impression they think it's gonna take the world by storm

This is a big change for me, I have sucked up every MS OS since DOS 2.11, Vista doesn't really do offer anything new and the barriers to entry in terms of cost and hardware requirements will be high.

I think its time for CHANG3 , it might be that PC's have matured to the point that one size (windows) really doesn't fit all, that's not to say there won't be millions upon millions of people that need Windows for apps that only run on that platform but there is now a (possibly larger) demographic out there that just wants Office/Messaging/Media/WWW and that stuff can be done on Linux or Mac's just as well or better than windows.

(note. I am not suggesting you should do this stuff on your couch 8 feet from your TV either)

As for the PS2 Linux Kit, only questions about Sony related parts are accepted at Sony support centers. In other words, practically 99% of the softwares on it, all Freeware and Open Source software running on PS2 Linux such as Linux kernel, Mozilla web browser, X-windows, gcc, etc. are provided "as is" without any kind of warranty and support, which is typical for the Open Source community.

Good point, would it apply to Linux on the PS3 HDD though, PS2 Linux kit was only bought buy people that knew what they were getting, bundling it with the PS3 is a different matter.

 

[bobthebub]

Huh?

Point taken, I still stand by my (simplified) reasoning, they do put a lot of effort into making products that will work out the box and are not too confusing for average Joe, a lot of the divisions you list are there to provide content for those CE devices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They sell a lot of CE goods, but they aren't averse to providing complex systems. They provide full PCs and complex movie gear. I would hope that they DO provide a simpler Linux interface because computers are too complex for most people, as I've mentioned in the thread one's already linked to. If Sony can provide the basic functionality of PC (different applications) without the insane maintenance overhead and complex interface, they'd be onto a winner (same with any company!).

 

[bobthebub]

Absolutely, but they have a history of bundling fairly poor (3rd party?) software with a lot of that CE kit up till now. I have never really used a Vaio but in a certain respect those lines don't qualify them to be a desktop software provider any more than the likes of DELL

IF they do get into the desktop replacement market with cell they would really need to raise their game.

 

[one]

Good point, would it apply to Linux on the PS3 HDD though, PS2 Linux kit was only bought buy people that knew what they were getting, bundling it with the PS3 is a different matter.

Yeah, but Linux is just one of the applications running on the Cell hypervisor and they'll put it on HDD as a pure bonus. The Xbox 360 HDD has some trailer movies preloaded but gamers who want more HDD space delete it without thinking twice. Those who don't care about Linux will just delete it, or won't install it from a bundled DVD in the first place. OTOH, those who installed Linux and could successfully mess it up can still delete it safely because Cell can run different OSs simultaneously. The main PS3 OS is not affected by a fscked up Linux partition. I think a typical advice to a support call about PS3 Linux will be "just wipe and reinstall it, period."

Of course they may not release PS3 Linux ASAP, but they are already distributing tons of doc and even a simulator, if they are not going to provide any Cell machines in the near future the community will be pissed big time

 

[Iron Tiger]

What if the PS3's Linux is provided by IBM? It would seem to be a good platform to demonstrate the versatility of the chip they co-developed, and could strengthen their name for a return to the consumer OS market. And they certainly know a thing or two about the dumbness of the average user.

 

[bobthebub]

Yeah, but Linux is just one of the applications running on the Cell hypervisor and they'll put it on HDD as a pure bonus.

I went back and looked at the exact quote from Ken again

"I think we'll have [the hard disk] preinstalled with Linux as a bonus"

Which seems to be exactly where you are coming from, I guess that's the only basis we will see it any time soon. Here's hoping!

 

[Nicked]

I think they'll have a HDD Linux pack, not on the standard PS3 HDD.

I also think that Sony will provide a much better value hard-drive ($100/80GB or something) than the gouging competition.

Huh?

When 70% of your revenue comes from CE.....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why sell a separate Linux pack rather than include it on every HDD? KK's talked of enabling users to do more than just games. What will the HDD be for if you don't include a full OS? PSX type DVR and media functionality? Seems a waste to me when the same hardware can do the things Kutaragi has spoken of, like photo editing. Just stick Linux on there as a bootable option at no extra cost over providing the HDD already, enabling a home-brew society and associated Cell research, without taking anything away from the CE only customer who care nothing for extra Linux functionality.

 

[Belmontvedere]

back up a minute, PS3 HDD? I thought the HDD was going to be an add-on like it was with PS2.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/01/news_6128501.html

Sony's PlayStation 3 will not come packaged with a hard drive, reports the latest issue of Famitsu. While the machine comes with a 2.5-inch hard drive slot, consumers will be required to purchase and install the actual drive separately.

 

[drpepper]

back up a minute, PS3 HDD? I thought the HDD was going to be an add-on like it was with PS2.

It may still hold, it's just that the HDD itself may be pre-installed/come with Linux on a disc. So if you buy an HDD than you get an OS that comes with it.