Will PS2/Xbox games be upsampled to 720p on the PS3/Xbox360?
- Thread starter BenQ
- Start date
hm... well X360 is supposed to be using profiles for BC. They could add AA or increase the resolution much like on PC. If anyone recalls, DE turned off AA for Unreal Championship with a patch/download... So it should be trivial to do. The only thing is performance. AA would probably be free for Xbox games on X360.
Shifty Geezer said:
You know in that thread where I stated that you should expect 48GB/sec bandwidth or more in PS3 to emulate the GS, well 22.4 gddr+25.6 xdr ~ 48 GB/sec exactly! And the Southbridge has 5 GB/sec r/w.
So I'm guessing the EE core is on the southbridge and the GS is software emulated across CELL+RSX... ? This should allow upgraded PS2 visuals...
mckmas8808
Legend
This is a pretty good question. I never even thought of it. I know some games are made with HD in mind. Like GOW and GT4 so...
Jaws said:
As long as they dont throw the GS on the board, better visuals are a given - less than horrible mipmapping and better interlaced output are a given 8) . Enabling Aniso/Trilinear should be also work without sideeffects, what Im not so sure about FSAA or even different resolutions, in fact I dont think its possible at all (aside from specifically targeting games and their behaviour )
MechanizedDeath
Regular
Jaws said:
I thought about this before. There was a discussion on it at GAF. I thought you could have the EE as an IOP, or integrated into the IOP. The EE will be tiny @ 90nm. And I figured the SPEs have tons of internal bandwidth and the ability to run Cg (assumed). So eventhough they won't be the best pixel shaders, you have so much processing capacity in Cell that you could conceivably kludge perfect PS2 emu, no?
I don't know why they'd want to use the aggregate bus for eDRAM simulation when they'd still need 3.2GB/s reserved for RDRAM bandwidth to the EE.
Then again, I'm not a coder, and not sure how feasible this is. But Cell running maybe 4 SPEs as pixel shaders could possibly approximate the output of 16 of the GS's pipes? Plus RSX for assistance? Bah, speculating out of my depth here.
PEACE.Someone in the microsoft camp talked about this in an article awile back(probably a rumor though) they said Xbox games would be able to run at 720p(AA would be nice but I could care aless) on Xbox360. If this is true it would be huge advantage as older Xbox1 games would all of a sudden look REALLY nice. (Halo2 @ 720p would rock)
Same goes for PS3, being able to play the GTA(and all other PS1 and PS2 games) games in TRUE 1080p(not upscaled, and a decent frame rate with hopefully less pop up) would really kick arse and would be enough reason for me to purchase a PS3 alone just for that.
Same goes for PS3, being able to play the GTA(and all other PS1 and PS2 games) games in TRUE 1080p(not upscaled, and a decent frame rate with hopefully less pop up) would really kick arse and would be enough reason for me to purchase a PS3 alone just for that.
Npl said:
It's likely that they'll offer a few options because some of these may not be stable with certain games. At the very least I'd expect some filtering enhancements available...and if were lucky, res, AA enhancements...
FiggyG said:
Not sure what you mean by their track record but they did offer bilinear filtering enhancements for PS1 games on PS2. They added the Mips core from PS1 to the PS2 I/O processor and software emulated the PS1 graphics with help from the GS.
MechanizedDeath said:
From what I've gathered, it's emulating all the buffers on the GS that's going to be tricky. But this nVidia patent on double-buffering/ tiling may help if it gets integrated with the memory interfaces of RSX-CELL,
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=563702#563702
Also from what I've gathered, the 48 GB/sec eDRAM of the GS had internal buffers with greater B/W, so there's definitely a case for utilising the EIBs/SPUs B/W for the software emulation. The above patent makes efficient use of available bandwidths...
MechanizedDeath said:
If the 48 GB/sec is used efficiently in the GS emulation, then there could well be enough internal B/W available to software emulate the EE core on the CELLs PPE. So the Southbridge wouldn't need this EE core embedded, thus saving transistors...
Judging by the PS3 official specs, there was no mention of 32 MB of RDRAM, so the EE emulations must be using System RAM... ?
Jaws : was it in that previous thread someone suggestde using compression would save BW over PS2 requirements? I'm guessing some of those missing RSX trannies are for BC somehow (KK talking of software+hardware solution) and was thinking maybe GS emulation, though I don't know how quirky GS is reletive to RSX's way of doing things.
Reagrds 720p XB games on XB360, do they mean really rendered that way or output that way? Because the internals have upscaling capability. Outputting BC @ 720p on XB360 should be easier than on PS3 if the devs have stayed with DX calls - no diffrent to resizing onthe PC, and if they're offering new .exe's can make the necessary adjustments. But games that hit the hardware might be specific in how they use resolutions.
I'm also thinking of CON at the moment (and BG: DA) which is 2x SSAA on PS2. If Snowblind Studios have managed to render 2x resolution and downscaled on PS2, maybe that system can be extended to all PS2 games? :?
I'm certainly hoping improvements can be made. Square Enix has suffered terribly from jaggies and shimmers. And even if AA/higher res isn't possible, at least 60 fps should be possible across the board on all games and all those slowdown woes become a thing of the past
Reagrds 720p XB games on XB360, do they mean really rendered that way or output that way? Because the internals have upscaling capability. Outputting BC @ 720p on XB360 should be easier than on PS3 if the devs have stayed with DX calls - no diffrent to resizing onthe PC, and if they're offering new .exe's can make the necessary adjustments. But games that hit the hardware might be specific in how they use resolutions.
I'm also thinking of CON at the moment (and BG: DA) which is 2x SSAA on PS2. If Snowblind Studios have managed to render 2x resolution and downscaled on PS2, maybe that system can be extended to all PS2 games? :?
I'm certainly hoping improvements can be made. Square Enix has suffered terribly from jaggies and shimmers. And even if AA/higher res isn't possible, at least 60 fps should be possible across the board on all games and all those slowdown woes become a thing of the past
I made a note of this before - this will only work if you supersample the entire VRam(allocate 8-16MB of physical memory for the 'virtual GS') - OR alternatively - have a VRam configuration for every PS2 game that you wish to emulate (These same rules apply if you just want to just run games in higher resolution).
The latter option is a bit crazy - as it would require configuration data for about 5000 different games (It's a good option if you only want to emulate some games, like MS apparently does).
The former would "just work", but it needs software emulation of GS addressing modes (that comes by default if GS is fully emulated, but some ppl have speculated there could be a set of hw-extensions to RSX to allow it to simulate GS easier).
That said, the biggest improvement in PS2 games would come from using better texture filtering (which should be safe enough to use without breaking emulation), SSAA would be nice, but it'd be just as nice to just run the games in HDTV modes.
Shifty Geezer said:
Can't remember compression, maybe it was Faf or nAo...
My best guess at the mo is that the RSX might have some logic dedicated for B/C but it won't include the eDRAM. The EE Mips core will be S/W emu on the PPE and VU0 + VU1 will be S/W on the SPUs...otherwise the whole EE core will be on the southbridge...
BTW, anyone know of a list of Xbox games that will be B/C on X360?
Because a PC game is written for open hardware and they need to cater for different gamers with different cards and displays, whereas XB games are written for definite hardware outputting to an SDTV. So where a PC game will have bitmaps for a HUD scaled to the display size along with maybe virtual coordinates for object placement, XB games will the bitmap graphics at fixed resolution and pixel positioning. This would translate into graphics in the bottom right corner on SDTV appearing in from the bottom and right edges in 720p, right in the middle of the action.
