Will 939 ever support DDR2?

[Tsmit42]

I am a bit confused about this. It seems that 939 will be for DDR and AMD will release a 900 socket for DDR2. Does anyone know the truth about this?

 

[Tsmit42]

Hmm I also heard that they might make 3000+ athlon 64 for socket 939, is that true?

 

[Moffell]

For all AMD "truisms" on future processors go to www.theinquirer.net.

But if I make a quick mental summary of the rumours so far, DDR2 is coming 1h05 on the 939 socket. The 900 rumour was weird the first time I heard it and it's never been found if there was anything to it.

Considering that a DDR2 capable A64's memory controller should be backwardscompatible with DDR my guess would be that yet another socket for A64 would be totally unwarranted. The only reason for another socket would be if DDR2 cpu's could not be interchanged between the two types of mainboards thus avoiding unnecesarry headaches. Another piece to the puzzle is that Dualcore opterons/FX's/A64's(?) are said to be released on socket 939 and 940, is there any doubt these cpu's won't support DDR2?

 

[jvd]

my understandnig is they wont move to ddr2 till late 2005 .

Dunno if its valid or not.

They will most likely just move to ddr 500 as its becoming more avalible .

 

[Tsmit42]

So you think its safe to get a socket 939 mobo? I just don't want to get one and then won't be able to upgrade to their better chips.

 

[Moffell]

Well if you buy a socket 939 mobo today you won't be able to use DDR2 with it. The same goes for if you get a s754 board so in that aspect the upgradability is the same for the different sockets. S939 may or may not get dual core eventually but such a cpu might be handicapped for the lack of DDR2 bandwidth goodness. On the other hand it might not, s754 is very close in performance to s939 despite half the bandwidth. Any more question marks that need to straightened out?

www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000314

I can tell you what I'm going to do if that's of any interest to you. I'm waiting for a cheaper s939 cpu, preferably on 90 nm process. Put that on a nice and pricey mobo (with DDR) and hope that the mobo manufacturor made a good job in sticking to AMD's spec so that it can handle a dualcore in the future. I'm thinking November-December timeline here. My AXP 1800+ comp still feels "spiffy", but I could use a couple of SATA ports on it.

If I were buying something today I'd get a s754 3200+ with a nice mobo, they have really come down in price lately and Semprons will likely fit the mobo the next couple of years. I sure as hell ain't no Oracle though, take heed.

 

[Moffell]

my understandnig is they wont move to ddr2 till late 2005 .

Dunno if its valid or not.

They will most likely just move to ddr 500 as its becoming more avalible .

I recall that AMD has said that they won't move to DDR2 until the 667 Mhz modules are available. Latency reason I'd guess. I guess late 2005 could fit that timeframe.

 

[Tsmit42]

Well if you buy a socket 939 mobo today you won't be able to use DDR2 with it. The same goes for if you get a s754 board so in that aspect the upgradability is the same for the different sockets. S939 may or may not get dual core eventually but such a cpu might be handicapped for the lack of DDR2 bandwidth goodness. On the other hand it might not, s754 is very close in performance to s939 despite half the bandwidth. Any more question marks that need to straightened out?

www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=65000314

I can tell you what I'm going to do if that's of any interest to you. I'm waiting for a cheaper s939 cpu, preferably on 90 nm process. Put that on a nice and pricey mobo (with DDR) and hope that the mobo manufacturor made a good job in sticking to AMD's spec so that it can handle a dualcore in the future. I'm thinking November-December timeline here. My AXP 1800+ comp still feels "spiffy", but I could use a couple of SATA ports on it.

If I were buying something today I'd get a s754 3200+ with a nice mobo, they have really come down in price lately and Semprons will likely fit the mobo the next couple of years. I sure as hell ain't no Oracle though, take heed.

Yea that is what I'm thinking about doing also, depends on how soon AMD plans on releasing cheaper chips for 939 sockets. If the cheaper chips are not out by early next year sometime, I'll just get a 754 3000+ AGP and then get a socket 939 when DDR2 becomes available for it. However if there will be a 939 chip for ~$200 availble by the end of the year ill just get that.

 

[Moloch]

They'll use it when they need to, seeing as they're using an onboard memory controller with extremly low latency, they wont need untill the latency of ddr2 is more than made up for, correct?

 

[3dilettante]

How does AMD hope to keep the exact same socket through the transition?

They'll have to change something in the socket, or have implemented some hidden ddr/ddr2 logic in their controllers, otherwise people are going to plug a ddr-only chip into a ddr2 board, or vice-versa.

The next question is what pins on a DIMM must be routed to the controller. I'd hate to see what happens if a power or ground pin gets shunted to a data pin, potentially killing a cpu or a DIMM.

 

[Moloch]

How does AMD hope to keep the exact same socket through the transition?

They'll have to change something in the socket, or have implemented some hidden ddr/ddr2 logic in their controllers, otherwise people are going to plug a ddr-only chip into a ddr2 board, or vice-versa.

The next question is what pins on a DIMM must be routed to the controller. I'd hate to see what happens if a power or ground pin gets shunted to a data pin, potentially killing a cpu or a DIMM.

I believe I read on overlclockers.com that there is a socket change.

 

[Thowllly]

I believe I read on overlclockers.com that there is a socket change.

You really shouldn't believe everything you read at overclockers.com. They also claimed that socket939 would use a 250Mhz "fsb" (instead of 200Mhz) when it was obvious (to me at least) that AMD would simply use a 5x multiplier (instead of 4x). They said this would prevent you from overclocking, since there would be no headroom left. They kept repeating that fud as fact for a long time, then when they were proved wrong about it they never mentioned it again. They've also said lots and lots of other shit that has turned out to be false. I really wouldn't trust them further than I could throw them.

 

[Tim]

I believe I read on overlclockers.com that there is a socket change.

I hope you don't take anything that idiot Ed writes serious.

 

[Moffell]

How does AMD hope to keep the exact same socket through the transition?

They'll have to change something in the socket, or have implemented some hidden ddr/ddr2 logic in their controllers, otherwise people are going to plug a ddr-only chip into a ddr2 board, or vice-versa.

The next question is what pins on a DIMM must be routed to the controller. I'd hate to see what happens if a power or ground pin gets shunted to a data pin, potentially killing a cpu or a DIMM.

Well the controller is in the core so that doesn't change the pinout. How many more pins does DDR2 need anyway? These could be implemented already in the socket as there are unused pins in the 939 socket.
The ODMC has been rumored to have DDR2 support from the beginning but the final DDR2 spec (came a few months later IIRC) wasn't released in time for Opterons debut which could have forced AMD to make some changes thus having to leave it out of the features.

 

[Moffell]

AMD demostrated dual core cpu's in a HP Proliant box. A tiny bios update and off it went. Massive!

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040831/305770_1.html

 

[Guden Oden]

I hope you don't take anything that idiot Ed writes serious.

Ed thinks someone died and made him king shit of everything. It seems there's not a single topic in the entire universe he does not know all there is to know about, at least according to he himself...

 

[beyondhelp]

I believe I read on overlclockers.com that there is a socket change.

I hope you don't take anything that idiot Ed writes serious.

As opposed to what? Taking anything you write seriously?

I hope you don't take anything that idiot Ed writes serious.

Ed thinks someone died and made him king shit of everything. It seems there's not a single topic in the entire universe he does not know all there is to know about, at least according to he himself...

I find most of what Ed has to say about the CPU/Motherboard business to be pertinent and knowledgeable. That of course is in direct contrast to your drivel. No doubt though you think you were annointed by God to pass judgement. Please provide a link to YOUR web site so that I can peruse YOUR pearls of wisdom on the state of the Industry. I can't wait. You must be extremely smart to think you can look down your nose at Ed's opinions.
Truly a Legend in your own Mind!

 

[T2k]

LOL.

I don't read Ed but Guden... I thought even yourself will admit hardware isn't one of your strong points...

PS: Just bitching, relax...

 

[Karma Police]

So do you guys think that AMD would go to DDR-500 first then DDR2-667 later? It seems like they could go to DDR500 already.

On a tangent, how easy is it to get a 939 FX to run at 250Mhz (DDR-500) speeds on air? Anyone have experience with this?

 

[T2k]

Dunno air but easy on water.

DDR2 right now doesn't really give you anything else than higher latency.