Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename

[Deleted member 13524]

Actually the quad-core being talked about in the rumor article is the Armada XP. This is the one that I saw the PR on and sounded like something Nintendo would want for Wii U.

http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/armada-xp/

It also has a dual-core version.

Well there's the rumour and there's the fact that Jack Kang said, in 2010:

Approximately 15% of the sequential increase [in quarterly sales] was due to the initial production revenue from our ARMADA application processors, primarily as a result of a major customer preparing to launch a new gaming platform.

Although the embedded Armada XP makes a lot more sense than the Armada 168, for being essentially a powerfull CPU oriented for I/O (and for being embedded, of course).


The Armada XP's specs could be an indicator of what could be coming into the Wii U:
- 64bit DDR3 1600MHz (12.8GB/s) - something that would be complemented with the "large amounts of eDRAM"
- Up to 16 lanes of PCI-Express 2.0 (don't know what this would be used for.. for main CPU interconnect it would be kind of slow..)
- Two SATA 2.0 ports (mass storage + optical disc)
- Three USB 2.0 ports (original Wii had 2 external USB, so 1 USB for bluetooth wiimotes + 2 external)
- 4 Gigabit ethernet lanes (maybe 1 Gigabit for home wireless connection + the others for a dedicated connections to the tablet controller(s), maybe through a 5GHz connection? )


Such a powerful I/O subsystem could leave in the open the possibility of eventually using the console for cloud rendered games (onlive-esque), in order to keep up with "true" next-gen consoles.

I hate to say this, but I think you guys are going to be pretty disappointed this E3. I have a feeling Nintendo is not going to release their specs. They haven't done so for the Wii and even with the fairly respectable hardware like the 3DS, all we can rely on are leaks, vague leaks at that. I don't think Nintendo will give out specs for the Wii-U whether it's 1 billion times the power of current gen or 1 billion times weaker than your calculator.

Nintendo has disclosed some info about the Wii, but yes they did avoid giving out all the specs because they knew it would make them look bad (same with the 3DS).

Nonetheless, what is known about the 3DS and the Wii isn't based on leaks, it's based on developer documentation and teardowns, both of which aren't "vague" at all.
So even if the Wii U's specs aren't released by Nintendo (which they'll probably only do if the console actually performs worse than the current competition), I'm pretty sure we'll know lots of info about it as soon as it's released to the general public.

 

[Earendil]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the benefit of using an ARM processor in addition to the regular CPU? Is it simply to function as an I/O controller, taking the load off the CPU? Or would it be doing additional tasks?

 

[Urian]

Be simple my friends, ARM11 like the one in 3DS for I/O processing is more than enough.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the benefit of using an ARM processor in addition to the regular CPU? Is it simply to function as an I/O controller, taking the load off the CPU? Or would it be doing additional tasks?

The ARM9 Starlet in the Wii was used for most I/O tasks, and kept the software updates running while the console was in standby.

The Wii U has a lot more of I/O going on though, because of the independent video+sound streams going to the tablet controller(s), so I guess that would need a more powerful processor than an ARM9.

However, 2/4 ARMv7 cores @1.6GHz would open the possibility of doing a lot more than just controlling I/O functions, and being in the same die as the GPU could open some possibilities for assisting in some graphics functions.

 

[Earendil]

The ARM9 Starlet in the Wii was used for most I/O tasks, and kept the software updates running while the console was in standby.

The Wii U has a lot more of I/O going on though, because of the independent video+sound streams going to the tablet controller(s), so I guess that would need a more powerful processor than an ARM9.

However, 2/4 ARMv7 cores @1.6GHz would open the possibility of doing a lot more than just controlling I/O functions, and being in the same die as the GPU could open some possibilities for assisting in some graphics functions.

Interesting... *scratches beard he doesn't have*

So, would it handle some of the geometry setup? Rasterizing? Etc...? Perhaps it will handle rendering to the tablet. If I'm spewing nonsense, please tell me. I'm a little out of date with my tech knowledge.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Interesting... *scratches beard he doesn't have*

So, would it handle some of the geometry setup? Rasterizing? Etc...? Perhaps it will handle rendering to the tablet. If I'm spewing nonsense, please tell me. I'm a little out of date with my tech knowledge.

I'm not an expert, but I'd guess the PowerPC would be better for that?
I was thinking more of memory management (it'll really need that if the main memory is only 12.8GB/s), driver execution and maybe #gasp# assisting in GPGPU functionality.

 

[Blazkowicz]

It would be used as the I/O controller like the ARM core (Starlet) in Wii.

alright but I was confused by the article talking of a quad core and mentioning the mobile phone 2+1 core version with GPU and video acceleration.

this all sounded like the guy for Mavell hinted it could be a main CPU for a console.
hell you could make a low cost, passively cooled old style console with such a multicore ARM CPU + mobile GPU SoC, classic controllers and it wouldn't be half-bad. just much less powerful and less convoluted than Wii U, PS360, PS4/X720 etc.

it's just that I have trouble believing a quad CPU is an I/O controller, that feels complex and overkill. will it need to run its own OS with thread scheduling, etc.
but there could be encoding blocks for transmission of framebuffers to the tablets.

 

[Urian]

Could be this?

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=IN/"Leather,+Mark+M"&RS=IN/"Leather,+Mark+M"

Or is it related to the Xbox 360?

 

[babybumb]

Arkam claims he has been verified.

No way this can be true. I would love to see hordes of loyal fans defend this though when they are expecting 5x360

 

[liolio]

Arkam claims he has been verified.

No way this can be true. I would love to see hordes of loyal fans defend this though when they are expecting 5x360

Sorry I've lost the plot with WiiU what did Arkam claimed?

 

[Legendary]

Arkam claims he has been verified.

No way this can be true. I would love to see hordes of loyal fans defend this though when they are expecting 5x360

I can't wait to see what haters like you will have to say in a few months.

 

[Acert93]

Ok, I am with liolio, let's just fast forward and everyone clearly layout (a) what are the claims and (b) who is backing what claim?

Better yet, as I sense a lot of tension here lets add (c) what are you will to bet (1 month temp-ban?) if your are wrong?

All I can see for the last couple handful of pages is random references to murky sources and why they are wrong because a reference to some older murkier source contradicts it, followed by page after page of ribbing and banter. Which I don't mind but my head is now dizzy. WiiU is less than a year away so the banter time is over -- so who is willing to outline their WiiU hardware claims clearly & concisely and be quiet until some addition information comes forth?

But seriously, the more active posters bantering in this thread just laying out what is predicted w/ links & dates, and which you think are correct (and how much you are willing to bet it is correct... some of you seem certain, so if you are certain I would love to see some weight behind such!) would be a nice summary to move forward

 

[babybumb]

I can't wait to see what haters like you will have to say in a few months.

Honestly i don't think there is much of a difference if it´s slightly less or slightly above for consumers. It will run Nintendo games in HD and it will run 3rd party HD games. If they can save $10 on somewhere then thats $1billion in their calculations over the console lifetime.

Nintendo is in their own realm. Their target is not PS4/720. Did they really miss core gamer 3rd party hits when they made billions with the Wii? They are just trying to do same thing now with a tablet.

 

[steampoweredgod]

I can't wait to see what haters like you will have to say in a few months.

lore supposedly confirmed(Arkam connected to industry.)

Would at least make sense of the 50% claim... more ram and faster drive with more speed, and more up to date features, could make up for slightly weaker lvl of hardware capability. But IMHO, it just has to be BS. No way, no way nintendo could accomplish such, trolling.

 

[swaaye]

Nintendo is in their own realm. Their target is not PS4/720. Did they really miss core gamer 3rd party hits when they made billions with the Wii? They are just trying to do same thing now with a tablet.

I would say they are again clearly spending the budget on control scheme instead of partaking in the bleeding edge 3D Shinies race. Graphics are not primarily what Nintendo cares about, if history is anything to go by. They still have that toy company mentality and try to design new types of entertainment each time.

They really need to kick ass with the social aspects this time. I wish them luck with that because I wouldn't have a clue how to target their particular audience's desires there.

 

[liolio]

lore supposedly confirmed(Arkam connected to industry.)

Would at least make sense of the 50% claim... more ram and faster drive with more speed, and more up to date features, could make up for slightly weaker lvl of hardware capability. But IMHO, it just has to be BS. No way, no way nintendo could accomplish such, trolling.

Not sure what the claim was I went through quiet some pages an I'm still lost.
Anyway don't underestimate Nintendo's trolling power.
Who else on earth could go away with this, honestly?

I'm not an Apple "believer" my-self but I'm not sure either Apple believers would let Apple go away with that...

 

[Legendary]

Not sure what the claim was I went through quiet some pages an I'm still lost.
Anyway don't underestimate Nintendo's trolling power.
Who else on earth could go away with this, honestly?

I'm not an Apple "believer" my-self but I'm not sure either Apple believers would let Apple go away with that...

Hey man, it might look really ugly but at least (most) people who've used it say it's comfortable...:smile:

 

[Acert93]

Hey man, it might look really ugly but at least (most) people who've used it say it's comfortable...:smile:

Why did the original 3DS not address the battery and control issues? I guess that is a question for another thread... but on topic for this one, it is a recent example of Nintendo's unique outlook on the market and their own method of developing and refining products.

Per swaaye's comment ("They really need to kick ass with the social aspects this time. I wish them luck with that because I wouldn't have a clue how to target their particular audience's desires there. "): while I think their "Disney Image" gives them a leg up on messaging parental concerns it is a challenge. I think with the explosion of social media and cell phones (talk, chat, pics, etc) already has parents getting familiar with the concepts and extending them to children and that Nintendo's family friendly heritage will allow them the to be in the privileged position to push those technologies into the kiddie market.

 

[Entropy]

I would say they are again clearly spending the budget on control scheme instead of partaking in the bleeding edge 3D Shinies race. Graphics are not primarily what Nintendo cares about, if history is anything to go by. They still have that toy company mentality and try to design new types of entertainment each time.

And they have been very, very successful doing that. The number of competitors that has come and gone is remarkable, not to mention that even this generation, they have been able to outsell both their old competitor, Sony, and their new one with the endlessly deep pockets, Microsoft. Control is critical in gaming (as opposed to watching pictures), and is the defining trait of many/most physical games. Novelty is fun to us, the smartest monkeys.

They really need to kick ass with the social aspects this time. I wish them luck with that because I wouldn't have a clue how to target their particular audience's desires there.

I question this. It seems to be propagated by a demographic that, for the life of me, I can't see as being other than a small part of their consumer base, ((young) adults who have time enough on their hands to spend time on forums such as this and complain that they want still more outlets to spend even more time on electronic social forums.) And when I look at the spread of their consumer base, I can't see that there is a reasonable way to serve from four-year olds to elderly brain trainers. If I were Nintendo the only special interest group I'd focus on is the below 10 year olds. How to connect kids who can only read and write very little/slowly, or not at all.

Other than that, online game matching takes care of most needs. These devices have access to browsers and the internet, facebook and other social sites are already there, as is various structures for chatting, messaging et cetera where you can access all your friends, not only your (hopefully comparatively short) list of friends who spend time on your particular brand of gaming console. And kids and adults around me who want to actually talk to a friend use a phone, they don't sit in front of their TVs voice-chatting.

My personal opinion is that Nintendo needs to focus on having good content at reasonable prices, and avoid shooting themselves in the foot. (For instance as in reducing total market size and inducing consumer caution by hampering used games sales.) Or in general words, focus on delivering the strongest possible core value rather than spread their resources to areas that only a few request, and where even those are better served by other services already. It may or may not make sense to add the low hanging fruit (I'm not even sure about that), but asking the online community whether their consoles should have more online social components is pointless. What other answer could you ever get than "more!", from those people?

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Nintendo seem to give out their specs when they make them look good.

Spoiler

That's why they don't often give out their specs.

They've always gave out specs. Only the Wii and 3DS. Nintendo also never gave out specs to look good. They're the only ones that gave out real world performance numbers rather than theoretical numbers. That's why to this day, people still think the Gamecube is weaker than the PS2.

Let's face it, even if they gave out specs, would the average joe actually know what they mean?