Who killed the electric car?

[rusty]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/trailers-screenplay-E27417-10-2


Anybody seen this? If so, what did you make of it?

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in the UK yet, hope I get to see it as my dissertation was based on a similar subject!

 

[ANova]

I haven't personally seen it but from what someone who has told me, it's based on factual information.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

This was discussed last week on Dateline.
Yes, people are driving the few electric cars left.

 

[Rolf N]

I don't think electric cars need much help dying. While electric motors are very efficient, driving the energy around in rechargeable batteries just isn't the most sensible of ideas.
You might want to think of gas as a space/weight efficient and practical form of energy storage. If you want to replace it, you need to beat it on all accounts. Batteries don't (and hydrogen doesn't either while we're at it).

IMO the Right solution would be the methanol fuel cell. I'd be more interested in hearing who killed that.

 

[ANova]

Batteries have developed substantially over the years, especially with the introduction of the lithium ion cell. They're quite capable of powering electric cars; much lighter, produce more power and can be recycled.

Fuel cells are a good alternative as well.

 

[Blazkowicz]

the internal combustion engine killed steam and electric cars 100 years ago . you could get either of the three technologies, each with its inconvenients and advantages (electric and steam were silent, but steam needed lots of water and pre-heating, electric was hampered by batteries - which haven't much changed since , ICE was the best but noisy and unreliable.. but ended up being the best)

lithium ion allows for higher density that previous battery, but I think it sucks, it has poor durability, each new tech lasts less than the previous

 

[Entropy]

Batteries have developed substantially over the years, especially with the introduction of the lithium ion cell. They're quite capable of powering electric cars; much lighter, produce more power and can be recycled.

Cost is often cited as the limiting factor.
Difficult to say what would happen to that if there was a whole large scale industry driving volume and development though.

Fuel cells are a good alternative as well.

In terms of energy density and ease of using existing infra-structure, certainly. Not without their own problems of course.

There are a lot of very workable options. Apart from the obvious stalling from the obvious parties, there are some other questions that need to be answered for progress to be made. Which problems do you want to solve? In what timeframe?

Personally, I'd say that reducing petroleum consumption (and thus also reducing CO2 emmissions) is the number one issue. If so, electric cars are a needlessly complex and time consuming step. Much easier to simply change fuel and keep using existing infrastructures and even engine technologies.

When you get to noise and to some extent local atmospheric pollution in urban areas, electric engines start to make a case for themselves, but one of the tactics of those who want no progress is to haphazardly toss out different ideas and confuse priorities, making it difficult for those less scientifically/technically proficient (politicians and the general public) to see a clear path forward.

Ethanol seems to be the easiest path forward, it is already used extensively, and it solves the major problems with essentially no changes required to existing engine technology and distribution methods. It's only problems is ramping production and the fact that oil companies own the distribution network.

I sometimes feel that the main attraction with electric cars is that other industrial giants can bypass the control of the oil companies.

 

[Frank]

About a century ago, electric cars won all the races. They were the very best.

But, they were less than perfect for every day driving, as electrical power wasn't as common as it is today. And you needed lots of heavy and expensive batteries, which needed to be replaced quite often.

So, yes, the internal combustion engine killed the electric car. But that happened about a century ago.



Nowadays, an electric engine is actually much simpler and robust than an IC car. It needs no maintenance, for one. None. Especially if you use them in the wheels and for braking as well.

And while batteries are still heavy and expensive, they make driving cheap. No matter that your car doubles in weight, it will go faster and cheaper than a conventional car nowadays. And the current batteries have a defined lifespan, no memory effect or other nasty side effects (next to their weight).


So, actually, the electric car is making a very strong comeback.

 

[Entropy]

No it isn't.
It is even worse than the hydrogen-as-a-fuel red herring, in that the practical aspects are further from being solved, and it still doesn't solve the main problem, which is drastically reducing our dependence on fossil fuels.
It's nicely applicable even now for uses such as urban mail delivery, where you drive known distances every day and you know that you won't have to recharge other than over night. But as a general purpose solution it is problematic. Cost, recharging times, and energy density are obvious problems, but the fact remains that most electricity is produced by burning fossil fuel, and if the automotive industry turned to batteries and electric motors today (unrealistic in itself) we would just shift the location of the CO2 emmissions around. Pointless.

At this point in time, going with ethanol (or possibly organic oil for adapted diesel engines) is the way to go. It works right now, adresses the most important problem, and fosters an energy production infrastructure that avoids fossil fuels.

Once that is done, you can go further still, and somewhere out there electric cars will begin to make sense when/if the energy production infrastructure is such that we can expand our use of electricity without having to depend on fossil fuels. But until that happens, you're just moving your problems around.

Electric cars are elegant, yes. But for the forseeable future, they just don't solve the right problem.