Which next-gen DVD format do you want to see standard

[Redeemer]

We all know about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, isn't Blu-Ray higher capacity, but at the sametime it would be more expensive.

 

[Maintank]

Depends on application.

If I need to backup data Blu-Ray is a better solution for me.
If I want to watch a HD-DVD? I am indifferent.

 

[wildcardx]

Im hoping for HD-DVD. My reason is the thickness of the protective layer. While I tend to take good care of my discs, other in my house do not and I would hate to have discs that scratch easier than they already do.

 

[Wunderchu]

seems Blu-ray is a favorite..;


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=483444

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33797954

 

[Sovere]

I'm rooting for Blu-ray only because I want more storage space (the more storage space we have the closer we are to having UHDV). I couldn't care less on the whole video format thing mainly becasue I don't own one movie on DVD.

 

[Guden Oden]

and I would hate to have discs that scratch easier than they already do.

Considering there is NO anti-scratch layer on either CDs or DVDs, it can't GET any worse than today. And bluray will have an uber antiscratch coating, so why you'd pick HDDVD purely on the basis of this is beyond me.

I think it's stupid to go for a format that provides less space than the main competitor while at the same time requiring a new drive to read it compared to the format it succeeded. How easily it scratches isn't exactly what I care bout most I might add.

 

[PC-Engine]

bluray will have an uber antiscratch coating

This is NOT true at all. BDs will have a protective coating but there is no guarantee it will be the stratch resistant variety considering minor scratches will not affect read capability. Not only that, but the coating only needs to be applied to the label side to protect the cover layer where there is no reading anyway. The old super hardcoat bandied around last year will likely NOT be used due to costs. Sorry but you can just kiss the anti-knife scratch anti-permanent marker hardcoat goodbye.

As for which I prefer, HD DVD of course because it's backwards compatible with HVD which will blow away BR when it comes to mass storage capacity. Word has it that BR movies will come on 25GB SL BDs for the first couple of years.

 

[Sovere]

As for which I prefer, HD DVD of course because it's backwards compatible with HVD which will blow away BR when it comes to mass storage capacity.

Ths would imply that HD-DVD is a stop gap technology surely you don't mean to suggest that do you?

 

[Frank]

This is NOT true at all. BDs will have a protective coating but there is no guarantee it will be the stratch resistant variety considering minor scratches will not affect read capability.

The protective coating is only 0.1 mm thick. Do you know what happens when you put a disk on a surface that happens to contain a grain of sand?

Of course the coating is much tougher than the body of a DVD. It has to be.

Not only that, but the coating only needs to be applied to the label side to protect the cover layer where there is no reading anyway.

That would be with old CD's. The recording layer of a BR is at the other side of the disk.

The old super hardcoat bandied around last year will likely NOT be used due to costs. Sorry but you can just kiss the anti-knife scratch anti-permanent marker hardcoat goodbye.

Why? Because the super stuff is $ 100 more expensive for a gallon? Do you have any idea how many disks you can coat with a whole gallon? That superstrong coating will at most be a few cents more expensive per disk, in the worst possible case. Almost surely less than one cent per disk.

As for which I prefer, HD DVD of course because it's backwards compatible with HVD which will blow away BR when it comes to mass storage capacity. Word has it that BR movies will come on 25GB SL BDs for the first couple of years.

Both types are just as backwards compatible, as they both require a new player anyway.

 

[PC-Engine]

The protective coating is only 0.1 mm thick. Do you know what happens when you put a disk on a surface that happens to contain a grain of sand?

Of course the coating is much tougher than the body of a DVD. It has to be.

Sure, but that doesn't equate to being scratch resistant. I can put a coating that is 1cm thick, doesn't mean it can resist scratches...

That would be with old CD's. The recording layer of a BR is at the other side of the disk.

Oops you're correct, forgot about that.

Why? Because the super stuff is $ 100 more expensive for a gallon? Do you have any idea how many disks you can coat with a whole gallon? That superstrong coating will at most be a few cents more expensive per disk, in the worst possible case. Almost surely less than one cent per disk.

No because it takes A LONG TIME to add the two stage super hard coat making the discs more expensive. The super hardcoat isn't going to happen for BR movies. The studios will not allow it. They will use a cheap single stage coat. This has been discussed at the AVS Forums.

Both types are just as backwards compatible, as they both require a new player anyway.

No they're not. HVD drives were designed from the start to be able to read CDs and DVDs. Since HD DVDs are just DVDs that use blue laser, backwards compatibility is trivial. Not so with BD. HVD uses two lasers btw.

Ths would imply that HD-DVD is a stop gap technology surely you don't mean to suggest that do you?

What are you talking about? Both BR and HD DVD are stop gap compared to HVD when it comes to storage capacity.

 

[Frank]

Sure, but that doesn't equate to being scratch resistant. I can put a coating that is 1cm thick, doesn't mean it can resist scratches...

So, how do you call a surface that is very resistant to things like pitting and scratches, if not scratch-resistant?

No because it takes A LONG TIME to add the two stage super hard coat making the discs more expensive. The super hardcoat isn't going to happen for BR movies. The studios will not allow it. They will use a cheap single stage coat. This has been discussed at the AVS Forums.

Well, that is the thing with automating stuff. It doesn't matter how long it takes, as it will happen automatically.

You might have a point, if that could not be automated with the current machinery. And it can't. But they need to invest in new machinery anyway, so why not buy the stuff that can automatically apply that super coating when you're at it?

No they're not. HVD drives were designed from the start to be able to read CDs and DVDs. Since HD DVDs are just DVDs that use blue laser, backwards compatibility is trivial. Not so with BD. HVD uses two lasers btw.

So, you need two lasers in a HD-DVD unit for backwards compatibility? And how's that different from BluRay? It isn't.

What are you talking about? Both BR and HD DVD are stop gap compared to HVD when it comes to storage capacity.

How much storage is enough to cover all our future goals? None we can make today, right?

 

[PC-Engine]

So, how do you call a surface that is very resistant to things like pitting and scratches, if not scratch-resistant?

There's a BIG difference between trying to protect the data layer and being scratch resistant. As a simple example, a thick protective 1 inch layer will protect the data layer from damage, but that does not mean it's scratch resistent. Again BR has very strong reading capability and scratches will not affect this capability much if at all so there is no NEED for the protective coating to be made scratch resistant.

Well, that is the thing with automating stuff. It doesn't matter how long it takes, as it will happen automatically.

You might have a point, if that could not be automated with the current machinery. And it can't. But they need to invest in new machinery anyway, so why not buy the stuff that can automatically apply that super coating when you're at it?

It's not about new machinery, it's still going to take a long time to press these BR discs with a two stage coating and the studios do not like this even with new machinery. They want to be able to press these discs as fast as possible and as cheap as possible and that's not going to be possible with a complex two stage spin process with UV curing.

So, you need two lasers in a HD-DVD unit for backwards compatibility? And how's that different from BluRay? It isn't.

What are you talking about? A HVD drive requires two lasers and since it's designed to be able to read DVDs you can use the same lense assembly to read HD DVDs too. You don't need a special lens assembly just for HD DVD. To make HVD compatible with BR you will need a new expensive lense assembly.

How much storage is enough to cover all our future goals? None we can make today, right?

The fact of the matter is both BR and HD DVD are stop gap compared to HVD which will be coming out next year. They're starting with 200GB HVDs.

 

[Bobbler]

Blu-ray, hands down. As a format it is the obvious choice.

 

[wildcardx]

Being able to be repaired and resist scracthes was only my number one reason. However with the additional details gained from reading previous posts, i am unable to make a choice. If all else is equal between HD-DVD and BRD but storage amount i would go with BRD. If HD-DVD cost less then i would choose HD-DVD

 

[Karma Police]

I could care less which one it is. If there's a standard, then the question is meaningless.

I just don't want a lame format war lasting a decade.

 

[Coola]

i just don't want to come to the point where discs store like 8 terabytes of storage and one scratch on that disc causes you to lose like 50 gigs of porn movies

 

[Frank]

For clarity: the recording layer in a CD is directly beneath the label. So the label is the protection layer. With cheap disks, that is easily damaged, so you should put them down with the label on top. Better disks use a strong and very thin coating (~0.01-0.05 mm) between the data layer and the label.

With DVD/HD-DVD the data layer as well as the label (in most cases) is at the center of the disk. So you don't need a coating for protection.

With BluRay, the data layer is at the side of the disk opposite to the label, covered with a strong coating that is 0.1 mm thick. As the coating is thicker, it can be cheaper than the very thin coating used on good CD's, but it's more difficult to make the thickness uniform.

Any good coating will prevent all scratches and pitting from daily use and leaving the disk outside the cover. Very good coatings cannot even be damaged by scratching the disk with a knife or using grinding paper on it or such.

Scratches in the plastic material aren't very important as long as they're less than about half the size of the aperture, as the optics narrow the beam down very much. So the part of the beam that enters the plastic material is very much larger than the size of the pits in the data layer, related to the thickness of the material it has to pass to get at the data layer. So, CD's are most resistant to scratches, HD-DVD less (about half) and BluRay the least. But the coating on BlueRay will prevent scratches altogether, and better than with high-quality CD's.

For a comparison: the protection layer on BluRay disks is tougher than the protection layer directly beneath the label of a CD. Take some old CD's from different brands and a knife or sandpaper, and see for yourself.

So, compared to a DVD/HD-DVD, a BluRay disk has the best protection, but the least resistance to scratches when they do happen. Although the data layer from most CD's is easier to damage.

 

[PC-Engine]

I think you're just making it more confusing. HD DVD has the same structure as DVD ie it has a .6mm cover layer to protect the data layer on BOTH sides of the disc since it's 2 halves glued together. BR has a .1mm cover layer or 1/6 the thickness so it NEEDs a protective coating on one side of the disc. The other side of BR is well protected. There is no evidence BRDs with a cheaper protective coating will be resistant to scratches. As long as it protects the data layer then that will be enough.

 

[chavvdarrr]

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050810_131820.html

Hollywood (CA) - In an announcement last night, the Blu-ray Disc Association, led by Sony, representing one of two competing high-definition DVD formats, stated it will simultaneously embrace digital watermarking, programmable cryptography, and a self-destruct code for Blu-ray disc players.

So.... I vote for HD-DVD ...

 

[PC-Engine]

One great thing about HD DVD is that it also allows legal ripping to a HDD which you can use for your media server. It also allow portability to other device too like PMPs and PPCs.