What market is there for the NV28?

[McElvis]

The NV28 has not been launched yet, possibly August by the rumors. So it's not going to be available in quantity until late August/early September.

The NV30 is rumored to 'launch' in October/November.

This only leaves a window of 2-3-4 months where the NV28 will be nVidia's top spec product.

Now we all know that it's the mainstream products (GF4 MX, low GF4) that bring in the cash.

So the question is this : Who's going to buy an NV28, knowing that the NV30 is right around the corner?

The NV30 could be VERY expensive ($500+), with the NV28 taking over as the 'highend' card of choice. I cannot see this as a good idea though, as the R300 should outperform and out spec the NV28 in most departments.

Unless they release the NV28 at a much lower price, say $200-$250, I cannot see it selling very well. It's certainly not going to make much money for nVidia. This would leave the highend space open for the NV30 at about $400.


What's people's thoughts...

 

[PiNkY]

i already posted (more or less) the same question in the CineFx thread and am too waiting for peoples opinions.

 

[RiotSquad]

Hmmm....I thought NV28 was their mainstream chip...if I got it wrong I'm hoping for replies too....so in that case,I guess this was a bump....

 

[Geeforcer]

In order to make any conclusion regarding NV28 viability, you'd need to have a full picture of what NV28 actually is.

 

[RussSchultz]

Have there been any rumors at all?

 

[Dave Baumann]

Have there been any rumors at all?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1027400802

Keeping in mind the launching of the new ATI graphics chips, we consider it very interesting to collect a bit more info on the adequate response from NVIDIA. Since this company keeps all the info highly confidential, it was always a problem to get any exact info on the schedule of the new chipsets. What we know so far, we are going to share with you.

• NV18 and NV28 are to come in August (these are the contemporary versions of NV15 and NV25 with AGP 8x support).
• NV30 chip (the next generation of NVIDIA solutions is to come in October.

Unfortunately, for the same reasons we don’t have any detailed info on the specs of the upcoming NV30, and the credibility of all we know is pretty doubtful, I should say (see this news story). Moreover, day by day the "speculations" about Nv30 get more new details, and the closer we come to the sacred day, the more impressive these details turn. For example, one of the latest rumors claims that NV30 will support dual-chip configurations. Will NVIDIA make the same mistake as 3dfx? I will never believe it! Maybe it is about the companion chip, which is supposed to be responsible for the T&L implementation? Anyway, these are also rumors, so I don’t think it makes much sense opening big discussion here.

 

[LeStoffer]

Have there been any rumors at all?

Don't know. Lets start one then!

I reckon the NV28 be a GF4 TI-series on the .13 process to compete againt the RV250. (NV2x is DX8 level hardware) Hopefully the GF4MX will die a quick dead this fall.

BTW: I find the difference between NV30 and NV31 more interesting. I guess that NV30 will be for the high-end gaming market and NV31 for the pro DDC/graphics folks. I have no idea what the difference will be however.

 

[KnightBreed]

BTW: I find the difference between NV30 and NV31 more interesting. I guess that NV30 will be for the high-end gaming market and NV31 for the pro DDC/graphics folks. I have no idea what the difference will be however.

Better drivers? Multi-chip support?

 

[McElvis]

Have there been any rumors at all?

Don't know. Lets start one then!

I reckon the NV28 be a GF4 TI-series on the .13 process to compete againt the RV250. (NV2x is DX8 level hardware) Hopefully the GF4MX will die a quick dead this fall.

BTW: I find the difference between NV30 and NV31 more interesting. I guess that NV30 will be for the high-end gaming market and NV31 for the pro DDC/graphics folks. I have no idea what the difference will be however.

I thought that the NV18 (replacement of GF4 MX) would compete with the RV250?

And, as far as I can tell from different rumours, the NV31 is a budget version of the NV30, like the GF2MX was the NV11 to the GF2, NV10. Anand has hinted this several times.

 

[SanGreal]

Have there been any rumors at all?

Don't know. Lets start one then!

I reckon the NV28 be a GF4 TI-series on the .13 process to compete againt the RV250. (NV2x is DX8 level hardware) Hopefully the GF4MX will die a quick dead this fall.

I wouldn't consider this a possiblity, as nVidia has stated that the only .13u part out this fall will be the NV30...

 

[Gollum]

Traditionaly the DCC/workstation derivatives are called NVxxGL, so no, I believe NV31 will instead be their DX9 value part that'll probably be launched next winter/spring, which also matches perfectly with what Anand hints about Nvidia's future value-segment plans. I suppose it would have fewer pipes (if NV30 has 8 it'd have 4) and be lower clocked, maybe it'll be miss something else too to save transistors (fewer VS units, maybe the "extra" stuff for the rumored renderfarm market)?

As for NV28, I guess they got to be targeted as mainstream parts or nobody will buy them! The best might be to just "replace" the current GF4 boards on the fly, that's wishfull thinking tho. They'll probably increase clockspeeds and cut prices while at it, but whatever happens, please don't call these things GF5!!!!!

For the next few months, ATI has pretty much no products for the market between 150$ and 350$, this can be Nvidia's perfect playing field until R9500 comes along. They can't compete with value DX8 cards like R9000 and the high end will belong to R9700 fo sure. The MX series will either have to be updated with DX8 compliance (yeah right) or die a quick death...

 

[Pete]

I reckon the NV28 be a GF4 TI-series on the .13 process to compete againt the RV250. (NV2x is DX8 level hardware) Hopefully the GF4MX will die a quick dead this fall.

If nV is having so much trouble with NV30 at .13, why would they try to force another product to work at that spec? Also, they're releasing both the NV18 and NV28, probably both just AGP 8x versions of the NV17 and NV25. Maybe they'll add some speed, just to tout a new feature, but I can't imagine nV's partners being happy about three product releases in a year.

 

[Tahir2]

I think the NV28 will be a direct competitor for the Radeon 9000 Pro. But at the moment it looks as if the direct competitor for the Radeon 9000 Pro is the laready excellent GF4 Ti4200.

It may be just a marketing move - another Ti4200 class GPU with a new marketing name and perhaps less expensive to manufacture (whether is it .13 I have my doubts).

There is a market for the mainstream as at the moment the mainstream is clearly lagging behind the high end in terms of features if not speed (GF4MX vs GF4Ti xxxx) for NVIDIA.

 

[RiotSquad]

So....you mean my perception of NV28 was more or less right....amazing....

 

[Tahir2]

I don't know.. did not read your post.. until now

 

[GraphixViolence]

I think the NV28 will be a direct competitor for the Radeon 9000 Pro. But at the moment it looks as if the direct competitor for the Radeon 9000 Pro is the laready excellent GF4 Ti4200.

This doesn't seem likely. If NV28 was on the .13 micron process, then it would probably be facing the same delays as NV30. Plus, the .13 micron process is probably still very expensive because it's very new, so it's unlikely this would allow them to drop the price down to Radeon 9000 Pro levels. I think it's more likely that NV28 is a GF4 Ti with AGP 8x, and maybe a bit more MHz. It doesn't sound like something that would compete with the R300.

I also don't see how the 9000 Pro is a competitor to the Ti4200. If you compare MSRP, it's $50 cheaper ($129 vs. $179 - I'm sure street prices will have a similar ratio). Best Buy lists the Visiontek GF4 MX440 at $129 - the same price as the 9000 Pro.

 

[KimB]

I reckon the NV28 be a GF4 TI-series on the .13 process to compete againt the RV250. (NV2x is DX8 level hardware) Hopefully the GF4MX will die a quick dead this fall.

nVidia has publicly stated that the NV30 will be the only .13 micron chip coming from them this fall.

The NV28 will probably be something like the "GeForce2 Ti" of last year. I imagine it will have performance somewhere in the middle of today's GeForce4 Ti cards, but designed to for cheaper production. I doubt it will be superior in performance to the GeForce4 Ti 4600, as the NV30 will be coming out soon. As other said, who would buy it?

In other words, the NV28 will probably be a very cost-effective performance part, along the lines of the GeForce3 Ti 200 and GeForce4 Ti 4200. Given nVidia's past, it should offer a very good price/performance ratio in comparison to nVidia's current selection.

On another subject, the NV31 really excites me. nVidia never produced a low-end DX8 card. Maybe nVidia is trying to correct this obvious mistake by being the first to market with a value DX9 part, completely skipping the DX8 value generation? I truly hope this is the case.

The other, less appealing possibility is that the NV31 is the first refresh of the NV30, which will have very few architectural changes, but different clock speeds (Similar to the transition from the GeForce3 to the GeForce3 Ti set of cards...but hopefully a bit more change...). An example might be that the NV30 is nVidia's 256-bit part, while the NV31 is a 128-bit DDR2 part.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

So the question is this : Who's going to buy an NV28, knowing that the NV30 is right around the corner?

OEMs.

It has most of the "bullet point" features they're looking for in their high end product lines, and it should be done in time to win OEM contracts for Christmas season shipments (ie. full production within the next month or so). R300 should win some contracts for top-of-the-line OEM configs, but that'll be fairly low volume.

 

[Bold]

So the question is this : Who's going to buy an NV28, knowing that the NV30 is right around the corner?

I might buy an NV28. I plan on replacing my GF2 within a month or two, and I don't want to spend $300-400. I want to spend as little as possible now and upgrade again in about a year, so the GF4 Ti4200 is a perfect choice.

If the NV28 models include a product in that same $140 range, I'd go for it. And I'll probably be able to upgrade to an NV30 or Radeon 9700 (or perhaps even their refresh parts) next summer for about the same price.

 

[alexsok]

Well, I don't see much point in bringing NV28 to the market with just added AGP 8X support...

Several tests have shown already (on Xabre), that AGP 8X offers near to ZERO perfomance boost opposed to AGP 4X!

So I assume NV28 will have several changes beyond the addition of AGP 8X, like higher clock speeds of both the core & memory.