What is normal frame-rate for best quality "next gen" games

[ihamoitc2005]

Many games I see have only 30fps for PS2 and Xbox, also maybe GameCube, so is this normal frame-rate for next-gen also?

And is best quality game like MGS4, HS, Gears of War, MOH also only 30fps? If this is yes then does anyone know why? Is it because of "real world" performance for GPU is not so great or because GPUs have good performance but graphics is number one priority for game sales so developer says slow frame-rate is ok "compromise" for to have better screenshots?

 

[hey69]

slow frame-rate is ok "compromise" for to have better animation/GFX etc...

its a matter of tradeoffs thats all

 

[scooby_dooby]

Depending on the goals of the developer, and the type of game, they make a choice between 30 or 60.

Alot of the time, 30fps wins out. Eye-candy, graphics and screenshots are all much easier to market, and sell more games than high framerates. So if the framerate is really high, they can add additional effects and polish until it's around 30.

Mark Rein's comments shed some light on the subject, he states a fast paced team shooter game like UT2k7 has to be 60fps. While GOW, a slower paced single player game is good at 30fps, and they will continue to add eye-candy until it's at that target framerate.

Really, I think the answer to your question is "what ever the developer decides"

 

[scooby_dooby]

Question: What’s your goal regarding the frame rate?

Cliff: As high as possible (laughs)

Mark: well we’ll be at least double where we are here I mean were definitely over 30 all the time. Our goal for Gears of War isn’t so much a particular frame rate. This isn’t a fast paced run and gun game like Unreal Tournament where we want 60 frames per second all the time. This is really about using a high degree of visual acuity, lots of great graphics, lots of detail to help tell the story. I don’t know if you noticed but I walked around back behind the room, an area where you don’t have to go as part of this demo so it was fully modelled out, looked beautiful everything is normal mapped. Our goals were to provide this cool believable world; so we’ll be over 30 but we don’t need to be 60. If we find were hitting 60 then were going to throw more visual effects in, throw more things going on, more post effects.

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2042_en.html

 

[ihamoitc2005]

30fps

actually Clif B. said that they will add some extra features and stay with 30 instead of 60

So I wonder what is best graphics we can have for fast game with 60fps. I am afraid is maybe not so good (?) because Oblivion is only 30fps (also same for PC I think) and has pretty look but also has many graphics problems. Also developer say that many year 1 PS3 game will have only Xbox360 graphics because CELL use is not so much for many developer.

I think some PS2 vu expert developer have more CELL use for year 1 but I think that is not so many developers. So maybe PS3 also has too many 30fps games to show good screenshots. I do not know.

If someone knows what is frame-rate of HS and MGS4 I would like to know this? Thank you.

 

[czekon]

So I wonder what is best graphics we can have for fast game with 60fps. I am afraid is maybe not so good (?) because Oblivion is only 30fps (also same for PC I think) and has pretty look but also has many graphics problems. Also developer say that many year 1 PS3 game will have only Xbox360 graphics because CELL use is not so much for many developer.

I think some PS2 vu expert developer have more CELL use for year 1 but I think that is not so many developers. So maybe PS3 also has too many 30fps games to show good screenshots. I do not know.

If someone knows what is frame-rate of HS and MGS4 I would like to know this? Thank you.

ok so all the games for X360 with nice gfx will have not solid 30fps becouse oblivion had ?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Oblivion is only 30fps (also same for PC I think) and has pretty look but also has many graphics problems.

And on the complete opposite end of the spectrum we have MotoGP which looks stunning and runs at 60fps.

What's your point?

 

[hey69]

And on the complete opposite end of the spectrum we have MotoGP which looks stunning and runs at 60fps.

What's your point?

they could make the game even more stunning plus added ai and other effects and pull down the fps to 30 . but then again, there is nothing to discuss here actually

 

[Hardknock]

Since when was 30fps a "low" framerate?

Not understanding the point of this thread, 30 and 60 fps are both acceptable framerates for any game type.

 

[rounin]

Not understanding the point of this thread, 30 and 60 fps are both acceptable framerates for any game type.

For you maybe.

 

[scooby_dooby]

For you maybe.

For him, me, and the majority of all console gamers.

When consumers start basing their purchases on fps, then maybe you'll see companies respond. Look at Halo, it's framerate sure didn't hurt it's sales did it? GTA?? Bottom line is, most people don't give a crap about fps as long as it's no so bad it ruins the playability of the game. The 'must have 60fps' contingent really needs to realize they are a very very small minority of gamers.

 

[zed]

depends on the game genre
eg i like shoot-em-ups, now 30fps is way to slow with them, basically cause u need to make near perfect movement judgements very often
same with car games i believe (i hate that genre though)

 

[rounin]

For him, me, and the majority of all console gamers.

When consumers start basing their purchases on fps, then maybe you'll see companies respond. Look at Halo, it's framerate sure didn't hurt it's sales did it? GTA?? Bottom line is, most people don't give a crap about fps as long as it's no so bad it ruins the playability of the game. The 'must have 60fps' contingent really needs to realize they are a very very small minority of gamers.

For any game type? Nope. For all gamers? Nope. The point is he made a blanket statement that has already been refuted by some gamers and devs as well. Looking at sales in itself may be a good way of gauging, but there are also other factors to consider (ie do people have a choice? On the Xbox, it seems not and we haven't even talked about GT4 sales yet). The bottom line is 30fps vs 60 fps is a noticeable difference and only some games will work with the former while the latter, though perhaps less pretty, will work with all games.

 

[Hardknock]

For any game type? Nope. For all gamers? Nope. The point is he made a blanket statement that has already been refuted by some gamers and devs as well. Looking at sales in itself may be a good way of gauging, but there are also other factors to consider (ie do people have a choice? On the Xbox, it seems not and we haven't even talked about GT4 sales yet). The bottom line is 30fps vs 60 fps is a noticeable difference and only some games will work with the former while the latter, though perhaps less pretty, will work with all games.

30fps isn't acceptable for every game type?

Sure 60fps is preferred, but any genre is more than playable at 30. PGR3 is a 30fps racer done right. I remember how everyone was complaining but when the game finally came out the complaints vanished.

Like Scoob said, the percentage of people that actually care about 60fps is so small it's not worth it.

 

[rounin]

30fps isn't acceptable for every game type?

Sure 60fps is preferred, but any genre is more than playable at 30. PGR3 is a 30fps racer done right. I remember how everyone was complaining but when the game finally came out the complaints vanished.

Like Scoob said, the percentage of people that actually care about 60fps is so small it's not worth it.

You earlier said "game type"(specific...ie "fast action FPS") whereas now you're trying to change it to "genre" (much more general). The difference lies in the fact that in certain game types, certain things need to be changed in order for it to be acceptable at 30fps such that it is no longer of the same game type . For example, from fast action shooter (ie UT2k7 or Quake III) to medium action shooter (ie Halo), or from excellent driving game to acceptable driving game (jk on the last one...maybe ). This is one of the reasons why Quake III on Ps2 is considered superior in terms of visuals to Quake III on DC.

EDIT: and if a dev states that 60fps is a "must" for a specific game type, who are we to argue that they're lying

 

[scooby_dooby]

You earlier said "game type"(specific...ie "fast action FPS") whereas now you're trying to change it to "genre" (much more general). The difference lies in the fact that in certain game types, certain things need to be changed in order for it to be acceptable at 30fps such that it is no longer of the same game type . For example, from fast action to medium action, or from excellent driving game to acceptable driving game (jk on the last one...maybe )

Bottom line: console gamers don't care about FPS numbers, they care about the game experience. If a racing game feels fast, it's fast, whether it's running at 30fps, or 300. Certain specific games might feel they need a higher framerate to make THEIR game experience better, but it's specific to that game. At the end of the day, most people don't give a damn about whether it 60 or 30fps, they just care about how it feels. Developers will decide what fps their game needs to hit to feel right. Most of the time, that ends up being 30.

 

[rounin]

Bottom line: console gamers don't care about FPS numbers, they care about the game experience. If a racing game feels fast, it's fast, whether it's running at 30fps, or 300. Certain specific games might feel they need a higher framerate to make THEIR game experience better, but it's specific to that game. At the end of the day, most people don't give a damn about whether it 60 or 30fps, they just care about how it feels. Developers will decide what fps their game needs to hit to feel right. Most of the time, that ends up being 30.

Nobody was arguing numbers. I never once said that people need to know that their game is running 60fps or 30fps, so I would appreciate if that strawman was dropped. The problem is that in some game types going with 30fps no longer makes it feel right. The decision to go with 30/60 in itself is affected by more factors than the one you're letting on as well

 

[Hardknock]

EDIT: and if a dev states that 60fps is a "must" for a specific game type, who are we to argue that they're lying

or from excellent driving game to acceptable driving game (jk on the last one...maybe).

Well I'm sorry, but I think the vast majority of gamers will take the visual quality of PGR3(30fps) over RR6(60fps) anyday of the week. And the sales seem to show this

If too much graphic fidelity has to be sacrificed in-order to reach this mythical 60fps it's not worth it IMO.

 

[Farid]

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