What Europeans think about one another...
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Naboomagnoli
Newcomer
At least the British Isles all agree that we can hold our alcohol! 
I do think that Russia should be subjected to what every country thinks of it. I think the term "half-arsed at everything they do except chess" or "a liability" would come into it, given their love for botching up crises.
Not that my half-Polish origin comes into play when I say that...
I do think that Russia should be subjected to what every country thinks of it. I think the term "half-arsed at everything they do except chess" or "a liability" would come into it, given their love for botching up crises.
Not that my half-Polish origin comes into play when I say that...
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Heh, maybe if Sparta, Georgia lay claim to descent/history of King Leo we may see some fireworks...?
No, no. It's Michigan State's (American) football team that are the heirs to Sparta.
ManicMouse
Newcomer
The point of contention was that the current inhabitants of Macedonia, descendents of Slavs who settled in that region in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries AD, were appropriating symbols (such as the Star of Vergina) of the ancient Macedonians who were a Hellenic/Illyrian people (i.e. not Slavic). There were also a few irredentist gestures aimed at Greece and Bulgaria on the part of the Skopje government after they won independence from Yugoslavia.
As for the chart, I have to say I've never heard Greeks refer to Bulgarians as "Turks." Of course, Albanians and Bosniaks are called that name all the time, but certainly not (Orthodox) Bulgarians.
When I said "puzzled", I meant in the sense that there was some serious danger of say, Paris, Texas, being mistaken for Paris, France (for instance), requiring the citizens of the latter to take up their muskets, etc. Come to think of it, who let the French name their capital after a Greek anyway? Surely they should have to call it something else.
Edit: Ah, my bad. The village in France isn't named after the Greek. But surely the potential confusion on the point should be intolerable.
Edit: Ah, my bad. The village in France isn't named after the Greek. But surely the potential confusion on the point should be intolerable.
The "300" movie looks good. I was kinda pissed off with that when i saw the first trailer cause as always greek history was getting raped but after watching an extended trailer it became obvious to me that this has very little to do with "accurate historical representation" so i chilled down . But the first trailer was idiotic and leonidas was shouting way too much.
And btw 700 thespians also remained behind with the spartans in order to delay the persian army(or even defeat it, who knows what would happened if it wasnt for efialtis). 1,000 vs 5,000,000 looks like a fair fight to me.
Sparta was extremely antidemocratic. Athens was the representative of democracy while sparta had a complicated system. They had 2 kings(from 2 different families with veto power), with a bit of oligarchy(elder council) and a bit of democracy(citizens). It is actually more similar to modern "democracy"(especially the US type of "democracy") but still by the ancient standards wasnt a democracy(Isokrates said that spartans were "subject to an oligarchy at home, to a kingship on campaign").
You are missing the wider geopolitical implications. The whole "macedonian" as ethnicity thingie started 50 years ago, from a communist dictator who had an eye for nothern greece(and was trying to find an excuse to invade it). The term macedonian is widely used by millions of greeks for thousands of years but not to identify their ethnicity but to identify their origin(as in their "home", same thing with texans for example). In all official population registrations, from the roman empire, to byzantine empire to ottoman empire, not once there was a "macedonian" ethnicity(they were greeks, bulgarians, jews, etc but not macedonians). Simply because "macedonians" were/are greeks.
Now suddently, some new country claims "Hey, there is a macedonian ethnicity. Yes, we are the ancient macedonians, we are finally free and got our own country. And greece occupies macedonian territory and there are 2 million macedonians in greece which arent accepted as a minority". I mean wtf???? Yes, there are 2 million macedonians in greece but they identify themselves as greek.
Yes but you say "Many countries around the world(including the US) have accepted FYROM as Macedonia", although none to my knowledge has said that FYROM has any connection with ancient macedonia(i would like to see them try to even imply something like that). Well the thing is the FYROM doesnt really have a national cohesiveness. There are a lot of albanians in FYROM(most of them would like to merge FYROM or at least some part of FYROM with Albania) so many countries are trying to keep the country together(you cant really economically exploit a country that has a civil war). Moreover, greece seems to be the punching bag of the area. I am not saying that greece should be more aggressive but come on. Also this whole thing only makes nationalist/racist political parties to gain points.
It shouldnt be strange that right wing(and extremely right wing) people are elected in Salonica(major city in macedonia, greek macedonia that is). I mean when people feel that their culture, history and even their damn identity is threatened, they will vote all kinds of assholes. We have our own miniBushes in Salonica going wild.
Anyway now the whole situation has become a joke. When Greece participates somewhere where FYROM is also participating, FYROM is named "FYROM". But when Greece isnt there, most foreigners call FYROM "Macedonia". Now they are even trying to make this official, double name thingie(depending on the situation). Take notes people, we are seeing a nation in the making here. I dont even want to imagine what kids are taught in FYROM.
. But the first trailer was idiotic and leonidas was shouting way too much.And btw 700 thespians also remained behind with the spartans in order to delay the persian army(or even defeat it, who knows what would happened if it wasnt for efialtis
). 1,000 vs 5,000,000 looks like a fair fight to me.Sparta was extremely antidemocratic. Athens was the representative of democracy while sparta had a complicated system. They had 2 kings(from 2 different families with veto power), with a bit of oligarchy(elder council) and a bit of democracy(citizens). It is actually more similar to modern "democracy"(especially the US type of "democracy") but still by the ancient standards wasnt a democracy(Isokrates said that spartans were "subject to an oligarchy at home, to a kingship on campaign").
You are missing the wider geopolitical implications. The whole "macedonian" as ethnicity thingie started 50 years ago, from a communist dictator who had an eye for nothern greece(and was trying to find an excuse to invade it). The term macedonian is widely used by millions of greeks for thousands of years but not to identify their ethnicity but to identify their origin(as in their "home", same thing with texans for example). In all official population registrations, from the roman empire, to byzantine empire to ottoman empire, not once there was a "macedonian" ethnicity(they were greeks, bulgarians, jews, etc but not macedonians). Simply because "macedonians" were/are greeks.
Now suddently, some new country claims "Hey, there is a macedonian ethnicity. Yes, we are the ancient macedonians, we are finally free and got our own country. And greece occupies macedonian territory and there are 2 million macedonians in greece which arent accepted as a minority". I mean wtf???? Yes, there are 2 million macedonians in greece but they identify themselves as greek.
Yes but you say "Many countries around the world(including the US) have accepted FYROM as Macedonia", although none to my knowledge has said that FYROM has any connection with ancient macedonia(i would like to see them try to even imply something like that
). Well the thing is the FYROM doesnt really have a national cohesiveness. There are a lot of albanians in FYROM(most of them would like to merge FYROM or at least some part of FYROM with Albania) so many countries are trying to keep the country together(you cant really economically exploit a country that has a civil war). Moreover, greece seems to be the punching bag of the area. I am not saying that greece should be more aggressive but come on. Also this whole thing only makes nationalist/racist political parties to gain points.It shouldnt be strange that right wing(and extremely right wing) people are elected in Salonica(major city in macedonia, greek macedonia that is). I mean when people feel that their culture, history and even their damn identity is threatened, they will vote all kinds of assholes. We have our own miniBushes in Salonica going wild.
Anyway now the whole situation has become a joke. When Greece participates somewhere where FYROM is also participating, FYROM is named "FYROM". But when Greece isnt there, most foreigners call FYROM "Macedonia". Now they are even trying to make this official, double name thingie(depending on the situation). Take notes people, we are seeing a nation in the making here. I dont even want to imagine what kids are taught in FYROM.
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