What are the advantages/disadvantages of points vs dollars

[eastmen]

Money works in more than 4 places. Like, a lot more.

If i buy a $$$ card for psn last I checked i only worked in one place. The PSN store.

That's what I said above. ^_^
Still, it depends on the quantum of the total discount to know whether you have the better deal; and whether you can invest your deposited money somewhere else for yourself.

From what I can tell games are priced the same on xbox as they are on psn. So if I get the points at a discount. Sometimes I can get 4000 points for $38 bucks if i shop around. That equates into $50 of xbox live content or $50 psn content. So I'm already saving $12 bucks. If they do a sale on the content it even better.

That's the idea. Generate a point economy to encourage consumers to spend money with them (because the $$$ have already been converted to points).

True , the other benfit for the consumer is never having to hand over your credit card information.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If i buy a $$$ card for psn last I checked i only worked in one place. The PSN store.

That's changing, and eventually content bought on PSN will work on PCs and TVs too. But you're right, once you commit any amount of money to these services, it's lost to them. You can't get it back. So giving MS $10 you can use in four places you want to is a little versatile than giving Sony $10 you can only spend on content for PS3 and PSP, specifically the PC space. I'd hardly call it universal though!

 

[patsu]

From what I can tell games are priced the same on xbox as they are on psn. So if I get the points at a discount. Sometimes I can get 4000 points for $38 bucks if i shop around. That equates into $50 of xbox live content or $50 psn content. So I'm already saving $12 bucks. If they do a sale on the content it even better.

Sure ! But you are obliged to spend $38 bucks now. If you want to give your money away ahead of time, you can buy pre-paid cards at a discount too. Phone cards do that very often. I think Shifty gave a PSN Card example above. If the vendor wants to, they can implement a loyalty point system on top of the $$$ transaction (e.g., mileage points).

As for games are priced the same on XBL and PSN. Of course ! But there are PSN promo periods, just like there are opportunities for you to buy discounted points and games. If you're not interested in the discounts or purchase, you will miss them.

True , the other benfit for the consumer is never having to hand over your credit card information.

You don't have to use credit card. ^_^
Prepaid PSN cards exist. Both XBL and PSN probably profile your purchase habits to great details.

EDIT: Speaking of discounts, PSN recently experimented with digital pre-orders. If you're willing to part with your cash ahead of time, you get better price for the participating game(s). On these digital networks, you should also be able to find "Promo Codes" for free items that are associated with your purchase (e.g., Qore).

 

[draconian]

Summary so far,

pros for points from a platform holder perspective
-points seem "fun" and easier to spend.
-ms redenominates to a lesser numerical value. 80 ms points are psychological easier to spend then $10 psn.
-uniform pricing across territories. easier to manage and advertise dlc content?

pros for dollars from a platform holder perspective
-none

Those are the really only differences.

After looking into it, both MS and Sony don't give refunds. In fact Sony is worse in this respect because after 24 months, your psn dollars expires - I bet no one knew that! The only MS points that expire are ones received via promotions/contests.

 

[Rolf N]

If i buy a $$$ card for psn last I checked i only worked in one place. The PSN store.

So both are the same in this respect, right? Money dropped into the system can only be spent within, but not be pulled out again.

 

[patsu]

pros for points from a platform holder perspective
-points seem "fun" and easier to spend.
-ms redenominates to a lesser numerical value. 80 ms points are psychological easier to spend then $10 psn.
-uniform pricing across territories. easier to manage and advertise dlc content?

pros for dollars from a platform holder perspective
-none

Those are the really only differences

Ha ha, it depends on what you want to achieve. The point system can be a business in itself. The main strength for a closed currency would be to pool the customers' money together into a controlled economy (so that you can lock them in and make money). It requires more effort to put in place and operate though. However, you can boast about the amount of money amassed in this point pool.

They can't refund you points because you can make money from them using the discounted points. ^_^

And those are most certainly not the only differences (from platform holders' perspectives).

After looking into it, both MS and Sony don't give refunds. In fact Sony is worse in this respect because after 24 months, your psn dollars expires - I bet no one knew that! The only MS points that expire are ones received via promotions/contests.

Ah, you mean the PSN card expires or your $$$ disappear from PSN wallet after 2 years ?
I know iTunes Gift Cards expire in 2 years if you don't use them.

 

[draconian]

Ha ha, it depends on what you want to achieve. The point system can be a business in itself. The main strength for a closed currency would be to pool the customers' money together into a controlled economy (so that you can lock them in and make money). It requires more effort to put in place and operate though. However, you can boast about the amount of money amassed in this point pool.

They can't refund you points because you can make money from them using the discounted points. ^_^

And those are most certainly not the only differences (from platform holders' perspectives).

I think the psn store is also a closed currency. Someone needs to research this, but psn dollars I think are also non-refundable. Thus, in essence psn dollars are a currency in itself.

Ah, you mean the PSN card expires or your $$$ disappear from PSN wallet after 2 years ?
I know iTunes Gift Cards expire in 2 years if you don't use them.

From what I read - take with grain of salt - your $$$ actually disappear from the psn wallet.

 

[patsu]

I think the psn store is also a closed currency. Someone needs to research this, but psn dollars I think are also non-refundable. Thus, in essence psn dollars are a currency in itself.

Ha ha, PSN uses real currency and that's it ! If you're referring to the pre-paid card refunds, then check with the stores you bought them from.

From what I read - take with grain of salt - your $$$ actually disappear from the psn wallet.

Link in the article ! It sounds more like a bug, a mishap or PEBCAK.

 

[draconian]

Ha ha, PSN uses real currency and that's it ! If you're referring to the pre-paid card refunds, then check with the stores you bought them from.



Link in the article ! It sounds more like a bug, a mishap or PEBCAK.

Well, I did some research. terms of service in UK

Wallet funds have no value outside PSN and are not redeemable for cash. Wallet funds can only be used to access content or services from us. PSN wallet funds are not your personal property and cannot be transferred to any other person. Please understand that the PSN wallet is not a bank account and we are not operating as a bank. You will not be entitled to a refund for any unused funds, except where expressly provided by these Conditions or by applicable law.

This whole time it's been that psn wallet funds are sony's point system.

 

[eastmen]

Sure ! But you are obliged to spend $38 bucks now. If you want to give your money away ahead of time, you can buy pre-paid cards at a discount too. Phone cards do that very often. I think Shifty gave a PSN Card example above. If the vendor wants to, they can implement a loyalty point system on top of the $$$ transaction (e.g., mileage points).

As for games are priced the same on XBL and PSN. Of course ! But there are PSN promo periods, just like there are opportunities for you to buy discounted points and games. If you're not interested in the discounts or purchase, you will miss them.

Well I can make a bunch of little charges on my credit card I guess. Sony doesn't care if i make a $3 credit card charge for content ?

You don't have to use credit card. ^_^
Prepaid PSN cards exist. Both XBL and PSN probably profile your purchase habits to great details.

Yes but PSN cards come in fixed amounts. Which means just like xbox live I will have my money in the system.

EDIT: Speaking of discounts, PSN recently experimented with digital pre-orders. If you're willing to part with your cash ahead of time, you get better price for the participating game(s). On these digital networks, you should also be able to find "Promo Codes" for free items that are associated with your purchase (e.g., Qore).

Yes Valve should welcome sony to 2002.

So both are the same in this respect, right? Money dropped into the system can only be spent within, but not be pulled out again.

Yea.

But with MS points can be used on the 360 , zune and upcoming windows 7. Money locked into Sony can be used only on PSN which is games for the ps3 and games for the psp go I believe.

 

[Rolf N]

Yea.

But with MS points can be used on the 360 , zune and upcoming windows 7. Money locked into Sony can be used only on PSN which is games for the ps3 and games for the psp go I believe.

If you see it that way, PSN wallet dollars are a fantasy currency like MS points are, as they cease to be actual real-world dollars the instant you transfer them. I find that a little cynical though, as in most cases you can pay for content directly from your credit card, with the exact amount. The intermediate conversion to wallet money is transparent and lasts only for a few seconds.

The "evil" part is lingering "partial" money that you'll feel compelled to tack onto another purchase. Because you can't charge your cc with less than 5$ I believe, you'll run into that on PSN, too, just not as systemically as with the existing points systems.

 

[patsu]

This whole time it's been that psn wallet funds are sony's point system.

Ah, it doesn't say the money will disappear in 2 years though. That would be an awesome way to make money. That paragraph also highlighted that they are not operating as a bank (Otherwise, they will need to be regulated by the governments all over the world).

Once the prepaid card value is in the system, then yes, it will be in the system like XBL's point system. That's why it's called prepaid card.

But you don't have to use prepaid cards on PSN. However, if you use credit card, the wallet also keeps the change for later use so to speak.

Well I can make a bunch of little charges on my credit card I guess. Sony doesn't care if i make a $3 credit card charge for content ?

I believe there is a minimal transaction amount (US$5). It is needed to cover the transaction fees and other overhead.

You can buy $1 items in Playstation Home if you want.

Yes but PSN cards come in fixed amounts. Which means just like xbox live I will have my money in the system.

Didn't I say prepaid cards are like XBL points above ?

You don't have to use prepaid cards to shop on PSN.

Yes Valve should welcome sony to 2002.

There you go ! You are already familiar with a cash-based transaction system. Amazon being another.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Here's the benefit breakdown for each.

For retailers:

Points - You still make a profit on games sold for a platform even if those titles are DD only.
Cash - None.

For the the console holder:

Points - No need to to have credit card/money transfer/etc, systems in place to conduct transactions. Provide retailers an incentive to continue carrying a console even if games are predominantly DD. Ability to price games/whatever at the same value no matter what the region/country. In the case of purchase disputes, easier to refund points than cash. No extra charges from CC companies for charge backs or puchases.
Cash - No need to determine point equivalent?

Consumer

Points - No matter where you go, and who you talk to, games always cost the same number of points. No need for parents to give CC info to yet another company. No need to worry about kids asking for CC info. Easy to give point cards as gifts knowing it won't go to other things (such as drugs, alcohol, whatever...). Yeah that last point is odd, but a few parents and grandparents have mentioned that to me. Ability to buy points at a discount (if a retailer wants to take a cut on their margin), thus instant discount for the consumer.
Cash - Easier to know at a glance what something costs.

Drawbacks...

Retailers

Points - None
Cash - No income, thus no incentive to carry or promote a console that is primarily DD.

Console Holder

Points - Must build in sizeable margins for Retailers.
Cash - Infrastructure to handle cash transactions. Credit Card company fee's for processing. No way to encourage retailers to carry or promote a DD only console. High margin on console may get a retailer to carry it, but without continuing influx of income from game sales, unlikely for retailer to promote your console.

Consumer

Points - Have to calculate what actual cost of game is. Might end up with unspent balance of points. Can't get cash refund for a purchase.
Cash - Presumably can't purchase cash at a discount. Usually don't have to worry about unspent balance, unless a minimum purchase denomination is required. Or if you are only allowed to deposit cash in set increments (5, 10, 15, etc US for instance), in which case, same drawback as Points.

With regards to that last point, that's a problem I have at some places that allow direct cash transactions, but you must deposit in cash blocks before you can buy. Basically all the drawbacks of points combined with all the drawbacks of cash.

Regards,
SB

 

[specwarGP2]

Yes but PSN cards come in fixed amounts. Which means just like xbox live I will have my money in the system.

If you have a credit card why are you buying PSN cards?

 

[draconian]

Here's the benefit breakdown for each.

For retailers:

Points - [strike]You still make a profit on games sold for a platform even if those titles are DD only.[/strike]
Cash - None.

That doesn't make sense. Why would points give you the ability to make profit but not in the cash system?

For the the console holder:

Points - No need to to have credit card/money transfer/etc, systems in place to conduct transactions. Provide retailers an incentive to continue carrying a console even if games are predominantly DD. Ability to price games/whatever at the same value no matter what the region/country. In the case of purchase disputes, easier to refund points than cash. No extra charges from CC companies for charge backs or puchases.
Cash - No need to determine point equivalent?

Easier to refund points? I can't see how. Also, the rest of what you said above isn't valid.

Consumer

Points - No matter where you go, and who you talk to, games always cost the same number of points. No need for parents to give CC info to yet another company. No need to worry about kids asking for CC info. Easy to give point cards as gifts knowing it won't go to other things (such as drugs, alcohol, whatever...). Yeah that last point is odd, but a few parents and grandparents have mentioned that to me. Ability to buy points at a discount (if a retailer wants to take a cut on their margin), thus instant discount for the consumer.
Cash - Easier to know at a glance what something costs.

Drawbacks...

Retailers

Points - None
Cash - No income, thus no incentive to carry or promote a console that is primarily DD.

Console Holder

Points - Must build in sizeable margins for Retailers.
Cash - Infrastructure to handle cash transactions. Credit Card company fee's for processing. No way to encourage retailers to carry or promote a DD only console. High margin on console may get a retailer to carry it, but without continuing influx of income from game sales, unlikely for retailer to promote your console.

Consumer

Points - Have to calculate what actual cost of game is. Might end up with unspent balance of points. Can't get cash refund for a purchase.
Cash - Presumably can't purchase cash at a discount. Usually don't have to worry about unspent balance, unless a minimum purchase denomination is required. Or if you are only allowed to deposit cash in set increments (5, 10, 15, etc US for instance), in which case, same drawback as Points.

With regards to that last point, that's a problem I have at some places that allow direct cash transactions, but you must deposit in cash blocks before you can buy. Basically all the drawbacks of points combined with all the drawbacks of cash.

Regards,
SB

well, we've been through all your points above. And the vast majority of the claims aren't valid.

There is very little difference between a cash and points system.

and one more time, sony does not operate a cash system. They are points also, it just happens to be that their points are called dollars and happen to correlate perfectly with the us dollar.

 

[corduroygt]

If something costs 7 bucks, I want to be able to buy it directly for 7 bucks, and not worry about having to buy 10 bucks worth of points and then have 3 bucks remaining on my account. That 3 bucks just lost value because it changed from something I can use for anything (money) to something I can only spend within a store. That's why PSN is superior for consumers that are over 18 and have a credit card.

Also I wonder how Apple does it with 99 cent iphone apps, do they charge credit cards for a buck each time?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Here's the benefit breakdown for each.

Very much wrong IMO! You're confusing a whole load of arguments and comparisons. Appart from the typical confusion of "Live vs PSN" instead of "Points vs cash", you have even pulled in DD only consoles into the argument! And the fact you raise "can't buy cash at a discount" shows you haven't read the thread, because you can. In essence the difference between cash and points is the difference between the currency symbol at the beginning/end of the amount. Everything else - buying the currency, regional currency variations, how the currency is handled once bought - has the same issues irrespective of what these companies call their currencies.

eg. In this example of yours -

Points - Must build in sizeable margins for Retailers.
Cash - Infrastructure to handle cash transactions. Credit Card company fee's for processing. No way to encourage retailers to carry or promote a DD only console. High margin on console may get a retailer to carry it, but without continuing influx of income from game sales, unlikely for retailer to promote your console.

There's nothing stopping MS offering a service where you can buy directly the required points to buy DLC using your credit card. "I want that game at 800 points but only have 600 in my account. I'll use my CC now to buy another 200 points." The fact MS choose not to offer this has nothing to do with the limitations of a point-based system. Likewise Sony could have chosen to not support CC transactions and instead require payment cards to be bought just like Live, only they'd be labelled "£50" instead of "10000 points."

The advantage of point cards there is you can use the same cards everywhere, whereas cash cards would need to be regional. Other than that, the mechanics are identical. What everyone is comparing here are the different implementations of DLC payment by MS and Sony, not appreciating that the differences could exist if they both offered cash systems or point systems!

 

[Billy Idol]

Sony has a minimum £5 payment to PSN, meaning money sitting in the bank you can't spend. Again, this isn't a matter of points versus cash, but how the systems are implemented. There's nothing to stop MS allowing direct point purchases as needed if they wanted, or Sony fixing PSN crediting to payments in multiples of $10.

Hu?
Usually, I pay directly with my Creditcard exactly the price I need to when I buy something in PSN!

 

[Rolf N]

Hu?
Usually, I pay directly with my Creditcard exactly the price I need to when I buy something in PSN!

It doesn't enforce 5£ steps, but a 5£ minimum. Above that, you can pay exact amounts. Probably has something to do with cc fees on tiny transactions.

 

[Billy Idol]

It doesn't enforce 5£ steps, but a 5£ minimum. Above that, you can pay exact amounts. Probably has something to do with cc fees on tiny transactions.

Ah, ok...thanks for explanation!
I typically pay EU6.99 or 9.99 for a DLC in PSN, that is why I never realized it!