Water Cooling

[RancidLunchmeat]

(In my best Seinfeld voice)

Sooo.... what's up with water cooling? Is that just the normal thing today? The last time I build a PC (P IV), watercooling was something that only the most hardcore did for overclocking. Yet, every time I read somebody's PC build asking for advise they are all watercooling their systems.

In fact, when I go on PCpartspicker, it looks like none of the CPU's come with stock heatsinks and fans anymore? Playing with thermal gel and water and radiators was really fringe enthusiast level stuff. But is that the norm today?

What if I don't want to overclock anything? Can I still just buy the CPU with the stock intel cooling solution? Has watercooling become so easy now that it is essentially mainstream for anybody that is building a PC?

It just seems crazy to me. Watercooling always came with the inherent risk that there's friggin water flowing around your electrical components and that could result in total system failure. Yet, after two weeks of researching other people's proposed systems, they all have watercooling.

Can somebody explain that to me? Is it necessary? The last time I built a system, the PSU requirements were huge. As tech has gotten better, everything has improved included the power requirements. You can run an i7 and a 1080 with a 500 watt power supply these days. Previously, you'd be looking at outrageous 1100 watt power supplies. So if the power draw is less, why is the frequency of watercooling things increasing?

I'm very confused.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

There are a lot of closed loop systems these days which are supposed to be low maintenance and fairly bullet proof.

Do you need one? I don't think so. Intel and AMD still sell boxed coolers and if you want something that cools better and/or is silent there are tons of heatsink based after market coolers. Unless you are going for big overclocks I don't see the point in getting watercooling on the cpu side. For far less money you can buy heatsinks that are very silent and have more than enough cooling capacity for decent overclocks.

Maybe it's a different story on the GPU side as these things are running much hotter so watercooling might be more useful on that front but even then, I got a Radeon 290, not the coolest of cards but even in summer (30+ degrees) the card never throttles and if I turn the aircon up a notch noise even stays within acceptable levels.

 

[zed]

Do you need one?
Depends if you want a silent PC with reasonable specs then yes, else no

 

[DJ12]

I have an AIO Corsair H110, it's silent no mater what. I'll probably never go back to a standard air cooler. Although the very best air coolers paid with some decent fans are as quiet and keep the CPU almost as cool. They cannot match the look of an AIO though.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Thanks for the responses but I'm still confused.

I just looked up the Corsair H110 and it, like all other watercooling solutions, has two huge fans on it. Don't those fans have to run? Isn't the running of the fans what creates the noise we are talking about? How are water cooled solutions "silent" when they require fans to work as well?

How is the H110 with two fans quieter than just a stock CPU heatsink that only has a single fan?

 

[BRiT]

There is also the noise of the pump. Granted its a different sort of noise than the fans, but it can still be a perceivable source of noise for some users.


I used to run excessive watercooling PC systems for nearly a decade, but have since switched away from all of that for normal air cooling around the time the intel i3 530S were released. Thats around the time the cpus no longer needed monsterous power or heat levels to be performant and could be suitably handled by larger air coolers. I dont miss the hassles of water cooling one bit.

 

[DJ12]

Thanks for the responses but I'm still confused.

I just looked up the Corsair H110 and it, like all other watercooling solutions, has two huge fans on it. Don't those fans have to run? Isn't the running of the fans what creates the noise we are talking about? How are water cooled solutions "silent" when they require fans to work as well?

How is the H110 with two fans quieter than just a stock CPU heatsink that only has a single fan?

The H110 has awful fans, I have replace them with some Noctua. I guess it's quieter than normal as the fans never need to spin up as much as they do with an air cooler.

It's currently about 30c (Case temp is 40c), I have been running 7zip compressing some large emulation files for pretty much the whole day, the fans are spinning at 830 RPM and cannot be heard at all, and the core temps are about 45c (I7 4790k)

Only time it's been over 90 was when I was overclocking and running the heat option of Prime95 (Whatever it's called)

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

There is also the noise of the pump. Granted its a different sort of noise than the fans, but it can still be a perceivable source of noise for some users.

I used to run excessive watercooling PC systems for nearly a decade, but have since switched away from all of that for normal air cooling around the time the intel i3 530S were released. Thats around the time the cpus no longer needed monsterous power or heat levels to be performant and could be suitably handled by larger air coolers. I dont miss the hassles of water cooling one bit.

See? There's a reason I knew I liked you. It's because you are an actual real person with real person needs and real person experiences.

I didn't even consider the noise from the pump, but it surely must do something as the noise from the pump on my fish tank is god damn annoying (to me, nobody else seems to notice).

You are confirming what I suspected, which is watercooling was great when CPUs needed huge power draws and put off huge heat, but these days we don't need those same PSU requirements and we don't need extreme cooling solutions. I think the PSU on my P IV build was something like 650 watts. That was to overclock the PIV and overclock the nVidia GPU which I forget what it was, but it was a 2nd tier card. (ie: it was the 1080 and not the Titan X Pascal).

Today, it looks like I can run a i5 or i7 plus a 1080 or 1070 with a 400 watt PSU. I don't see any reason to watercool these systems?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

The H110 has awful fans, I have replace them with some Noctua. I guess it's quieter than normal as the fans never need to spin up as much as they do with an air cooler.

It's currently about 30c (Case temp is 40c), I have been running 7zip compressing some large emulation files for pretty much the whole day, the fans are spinning at 830 RPM and cannot be heard at all, and the core temps are about 45c (I7 4790k)

Only time it's been over 90 was when I was overclocking and running the heat option of Prime95 (Whatever it's called)

What do you mean when you say it's "quieter than normal"? What is "normal" in this scenario?

You are saying that with water cooling the fans spin less (are activated?) than with an air cooled solution? How is that possible? The water can't be cooler than the ambient temperature of the room. Sure, I realize that water is a better conductor of heat than air, which is why water cooling exists, but I'm not understanding why the fans wouldn't run on a water cooled system but they would on an air cooled system under the same conditions.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Fans need less RPM with watercooling setups and less and less RPM with increased radiator area. Closed loop Water coolers are quite user friendly and take little space in the case, especially the block over the CPU, some cases like Nano S you were looking at only has very little room for CPU-cooler height wise and thus is a good candidate for a closed loop coolers. The radiator and its fan installs in to a fan mount of the case and thus you get to expel the heat out of the case. CPUs don't really benefit from watercooling all that much though, perhaps slightly faster speed, but hard to see in everyday use. GPUs see very nice drop in temperatures with watercooling, but even there the actual benefits might not be all that much.

Air cooling is plenty for single GPU systems, but it still worth it to pay some attention to components and fan positions etc. The

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Fans need less RPM with watercooling setups and less and less RPM with increased radiator area. Closed loop Water coolers are quite user friendly and take little space in the case, especially the block over the CPU, some cases like Nano S you were looking at only has very little room for CPU-cooler height wise and thus is a good candidate for a closed loop coolers.

Ahh... so water cooling can actually be a preferred solution because of space issues? I hadn't thought of that, I figured all those extra pipes would increase space requirements but now that you mention it, a lot of those OEM CPU cooling solutions are quite tall.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Truth be told, good quality air-coolers from e.g. Noctua can get more expensive than mid-range closed-loop watercooling kits, which will result in a similar cooling performance.
For me, the big advantage of closed-loop kits is that you can put the radiator/heatsink away from the socket and attach to a 120mm air exit from your case, doubling its fan usage for hot-air exhaustion.
Not only that, but the fact that you're only attaching the small waterblock+pump component in the CPU socket makes it so much easier to mount too. Pushing+pulling+clipping+rotating+magic-dusting those gigantic heatsinks into the motherboard makes everything harder because they're so big you can't see straight what's going where.


I don't mind the noise from the pump, it's pretty much inaudible at least for me (I have a Seidon 120M which costs like 60€).
I wish similarly easy to install water-cooling solutions were available for graphics cards, for a similar price. Instead, waterblocks for graphics cards always go >100€ and they'll usually become useless as soon as you change graphics card.

Over 10 years ago, I had an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ and SLI Geforce 6800GT, all using handpicked custom watercooling components: waterpump, tubes, 240mm radiator, 2*120mm fans, 2*GPU waterblocks, CPU waterblock, Northbridge waterblock... The amount of investment and sheer work needed to make everything function properly was ridiculous. These closed loops have nothing to do with those.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I went with a Corsair H80i V2 for my recent PC build and my decision was predicated on wanting a reliable, quiet cooling solution. As others have said, really good fan-coolers are now well into (and sometimes past) the price territory of some water cooling solutions. I'm very pleased thus far.

 

[Grall]

One drawback of these all-in-one watercoolers is they don't provide cooling air for motherboard components around the CPU socket, including CPU and RAM voltage regulators (and the RAM sticks themselves.)

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Fans need less RPM with watercooling setups and less and less RPM with increased radiator area. Closed loop Water coolers are quite user friendly and take little space in the case, especially the block over the CPU, some cases like Nano S you were looking at only has very little room for CPU-cooler height wise and thus is a good candidate for a closed loop coolers. The radiator and its fan installs in to a fan mount of the case and thus you get to expel the heat out of the case. CPUs don't really benefit from watercooling all that much though, perhaps slightly faster speed, but hard to see in everyday use. GPUs see very nice drop in temperatures with watercooling, but even there the actual benefits might not be all that much.

Air cooling is plenty for single GPU systems, but it still worth it to pay some attention to components and fan positions etc. The

If you don't plan to overclock or only do light overclocking that isn't true.

I run a passively cooled heatsink on my i5 2500k overclocked at 4.2 GHz. The only active airflow over the heatsink is from a 180 mm case input fan (positive pressure in the case) that generally rotates at less than 600 RPM (goes higher sometimes when gaming). It also happens to be the only fan other than the fan on my semi-passive PSU (fan rarely turns on except when gaming) and GPU fan. As noted the only times fan noise potentially becomes an issue is when gaming. And when gaming the noise doesn't rise appreciably (except the GPU fan ) and is drowned out either by the game sounds or the GPU fan. I should also note that my case is oriented with the traditional rear of the computer facing upwards and the input fan at the bottom (all air exits the case at the top).

At night when there's no ambient noises, it can be heard. But then in those conditions it's also relatively easy to hear water pump noises and fan noises from a water cooler.

For heavy overclocking, go for it. If you're going to stress a GPU heavily and don't have game audio to mask some of it (nongaming GPGPU, for example), it might be worth.

But for me, it's not worth the added cost and potential added risk (even if the risk is miniscule). I used to do water cooling like Brit in the past. I also dabbled for a few years with refrigerated cooling using A/C compressors.

For truly silent computing, mineral oil immersion combined with a radiator outside the house works quite well. I had a system like that for a while (computer was immersed in mineral oil in an aquarium and decorated as if it had live fish inside). But upgrading computer components was a royal PITA.

Regards,
SB

 

[DuckThor Evil]

If you don't plan to overclock or only do light overclocking that isn't true.

I am not sure which part you refer by being not true?

I run a passively cooled heatsink on my i5 2500k overclocked at 4.2 GHz. The only active airflow over the heatsink is from a 180 mm case input fan (positive pressure in the case) that generally rotates at less than 600 RPM (goes higher sometimes when gaming). It also happens to be the only fan other than the fan on my semi-passive PSU (fan rarely turns on except when gaming) and GPU fan. As noted the only times fan noise potentially becomes an issue is when gaming. And when gaming the noise doesn't rise appreciably (except the GPU fan ) and is drowned out either by the game sounds or the GPU fan. I should also note that my case is oriented with the traditional rear of the computer facing upwards and the input fan at the bottom (all air exits the case at the top).

At night when there's no ambient noises, it can be heard. But then in those conditions it's also relatively easy to hear water pump noises and fan noises from a water cooler.

For heavy overclocking, go for it. If you're going to stress a GPU heavily and don't have game audio to mask some of it (nongaming GPGPU, for example), it might be worth.

But for me, it's not worth the added cost and potential added risk (even if the risk is miniscule). I used to do water cooling like Brit in the past. I also dabbled for a few years with refrigerated cooling using A/C compressors.

For truly silent computing, mineral oil immersion combined with a radiator outside the house works quite well. I had a system like that for a while (computer was immersed in mineral oil in an aquarium and decorated as if it had live fish inside). But upgrading computer components was a royal PITA.

Regards,
SB

You have a system that is quiet at idle or when the CPU only is stressed. Are you saying that watercooling couldn't match that? It's easy to make a system quiet under those applications. Which case and CPU heatsink do you have BTW?

More fans don't mean more noise even in air cooled systems. You'd have quieter system by installing more fans and having a better cooler on your GPU.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I am not sure which part you refer by being not true?

You require fans regardless. Unless you're doing heavy overclocks a water cooler offers no benefits. You can run passive air cooling at the same fan speeds.

If you're going for silent operation then that isn't possible with a water cooler. You can do a 100% passive cooled computer without any mechanical noises except perhaps coil whine. With a water cooler you're always going to have the noise from the water pump. Not that noticeable if you have some ambient noise to mask it, but it's definitely noticeable if you don't. The flip side is that you won't be able to do a completely passively cooling gaming rig. But you can do a moderately overclocked air-cooled setup with the same noise profile as a watercooled setup.

I already mentioned that under load a water cooler would be beneficial for a GPU if you don't have anything to mask the sound of the GPU fan when it's being stressed. When gaming, you're usually going to have something masking the sound. Unless you have a loud GPU fan, most people won't notice it while gaming. There are, of course, always exceptions.

Where water cooling and other exotic cooling methods come in really well is with heavy overclocking.

You have a system that is quiet at idle or when the CPU only is stressed. Are you saying that watercooling couldn't match that? It's easy to make a system quiet under those applications. Which case and CPU heatsink do you have BTW?

I use a Silverstone RV03. I've modded it so that only 1 of the bottom intake fans is used. When idle the fan is off. Passive cooling is more than enough to keep the CPU relatively cool when it's in the low power state. I can't remember the brand of the cooler (I think it was either Thermal Take or Noctua), but it's a tower design. The CPU cooler is quite nice. If I don't overclock it's capable of cooling the CPU completely passively in this case. The newer RV05 looks pretty nice as well, and while it is more compact I can't justify getting it just to save some space even though most of the interior of my RV03 is going to waste. This thing has a ridiculous number of internal drive mounts. Wish it was out at the time I redid my main computer setup.

I used to use an Antec P-180, for a while, but I didn't like the noise generated by the single 120 mm intake fan I was using. On the flip side it did a great job with masking the sound of mechanical HDDs. Much better than the RV03 in that respect, but since I don't use mechanical HDDs in my main machine anymore, that's not an issue. Not using mechanical HDDs also has the nice effect of needing less airflow for the machine.

Whenever I finally upgrade my 2500k, it should become even easier to passively cool the CPU as Silverlake runs cooler than that CPU. Although I'm not sure I'm going to upgrade to Silverlake or wait for the next CPU series.

More fans don't mean more noise even in air cooled systems. You'd have quieter system by installing more fans and having a better cooler on your GPU.

For same amount of airflow, more smaller fans is significantly noisier than a single large fan. One of the benefits of water coolers is that you can use relatively large 180-240mm fans on some of the better radiators. Benefits (WRT noise) start to degrade once you start using multiple 120mm or smaller fans.

Regards,
SB

 

[DuckThor Evil]

You require fans regardless. Unless you're doing heavy overclocks a water cooler offers no benefits. You can run passive air cooling at the same fan speeds.

If you're going for silent operation then that isn't possible with a water cooler. You can do a 100% passive cooled computer without any mechanical noises except perhaps coil whine. With a water cooler you're always going to have the noise from the water pump. Not that noticeable if you have some ambient noise to mask it, but it's definitely noticeable if you don't. The flip side is that you won't be able to do a completely passively cooling gaming rig. But you can do a moderately overclocked air-cooled setup with the same noise profile as a watercooled setup.

Well in my original post which you replied as "not true" I said

" CPUs don't really benefit from watercooling all that much though, perhaps slightly faster speed, but hard to see in everyday use. "

which puts a pretty realistic ceiling on watercooling CPU only. I am quite certain, that if you'd put a 180mm radiator to your fan and a waterblock to your cpu, the temps will be lower with the same RPMs, thus you could lower the RPMs to get the same temps as now. If it's already quiet as you say, the real world benefit is small, but a 180mm radiator/fan could actually do a pretty good job with both the CPU and GPU if not overclocked.

I use a Silverstone RV03. I've modded it so that only 1 of the bottom intake fans is used. When idle the fan is off. Passive cooling is more than enough to keep the CPU relatively cool when it's in the low power state. I can't remember the brand of the cooler (I think it was either Thermal Take or Noctua), but it's a tower design.

For same amount of airflow, more smaller fans is significantly noisier than a single large fan. One of the benefits of water coolers is that you can use relatively large 180-240mm fans on some of the better radiators. Benefits (WRT noise) start to degrade once you start using multiple 120mm or smaller fans.

I used to have a Raven 2, those are nice cases. I do remember the air penetrator fans not being very quiet at 700 RPMs though, but maybe one at 600 is? Thing about fans is that 120mm fans are the most common and I'm sure those are developed the most. I do think that the 120mm Gentle Typhoon fans in radiators can challenge bigger fans pretty nicely.

Would be nice to see your PC in action. What GPU do you have BTW?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You require fans regardless. Unless you're doing heavy overclocks a water cooler offers no benefits. You can run passive air cooling at the same fan speeds.

The reason I went with water cooling is that every review I read that did a comparison of temps and noise concluded that water coolers generally kept temperatures lower with less noise. Those were the benefits for me as my gaming PC is in the living room.

 

[Rootax]

Noise is tricky, because sometimes the pump can make a very "ugly" noise, not loud, but irritating.

I use AIOs mainly because it's easier for me to evacuate all the hot air out of the case, but I have a Thermaltake Core X5 case, so, lot of room... With my AIO for the cpu (Alphacool Eisbaer 360) and the aio for my Fury X fixed on top of the case, it's pretty nice this way (I've 2*14cm intake fan at low speed in the case too)