Was MS launching XBox a good idea? *spawn

It doesn't put money in Microsoft's pocket, but it put's money in Valve's pocket ...

If Microsoft had gone with some kind of Windows Light Mode which could only run certified games on certified hardware configurations I think it would have been unlikely Steam could have grown as large as it did (and of course they would have made money through the certification process). Even if Steam could also distribute certified games for the Windows Light Mode, Microsoft could easily offer better integration ... and without the XBOX distraction they probably would have done it too.
 
MfA said:
but it put's money in Valve's pocket ...
But does it put more money in Valve's pocket than apps and downloadable content puts in Apple's?

As for Xbox being a distraction, it wouldn't really surprise me if Xbox becomes Microsofts #1 source of revenue within the next 10 years. If only all companies could have "distractions" that profitable...
 
It doesn't put money in Microsoft's pocket, but it put's money in Valve's pocket ...

If Microsoft had gone with some kind of Windows Light Mode which could only run certified games on certified hardware configurations I think it would have been unlikely Steam could have grown as large as it did (and of course they would have made money through the certification process). Even if Steam could also distribute certified games for the Windows Light Mode, Microsoft could easily offer better integration ... and without the XBOX distraction they probably would have done it too.

If only MS had an integrated digital distribution network with revenues over $1 billion. oh wait... they do. It's called live.

The console accomplishes a lot of things that steam never will.
 
If only MS had an integrated digital distribution network with revenues over $1 billion. oh wait... they do. It's called live.

The console accomplishes a lot of things that steam never will.
They could have had all that on Windows ... and made 2 billion.

Instead of walking a tight rope between their support for PC gaming (ie. trying to kill it gently) and the XBOX division and letting Steam walk off with the money in the process.
 
I'm sure there would have been lawsuits had they included that functionality within their WinOS.
 
Well it probably have a positive impact on MS.
PS3's launch was delayed partly due to the BD. It expanded MS's lead. Not only that, it was released a year later in the US and 1.5 years later in Europe without a clear performance advantage over the 360 because the BD inclusion took already much of the cost. Further to that, it sent retail price to the roof. The 360 was much cheaper and it was getting mind blowing games like Gears. So.....what did the consumer get for paying extra over the 360? Mostly Blu Ray.
But to make things worse the consumer was unsure about BR due to the format wars and small user base of HDTV's. That extra "advantage" wasnt perceived clearly as being REALLY one.


I agree totally about the brand image rebuilt

Today even kids like MS products
I don't see how BD's inclusion "sent retail price to the roof". The BD drive's cost was $125. The PS3's manufacturing cost was over $800. I don't think a company could justify subsidizing a game console well over $200 without the inclusion of a BD drive. That would, most likely, mean the PS3 would still launch at $600 without a BD drive.
 
I don't see how BD's inclusion "sent retail price to the roof". The BD drive's cost was $125. The PS3's manufacturing cost was over $800. I don't think a company could justify subsidizing a game console well over $200 without the inclusion of a BD drive. That would, most likely, mean the PS3 would still launch at $600 without a BD drive.

Once again your logic amazes me. Why would the price stay the same if they cut more than $100 off the cost of manufacture?
 
I don't see how BD's inclusion "sent retail price to the roof". The BD drive's cost was $125. The PS3's manufacturing cost was over $800. I don't think a company could justify subsidizing a game console well over $200 without the inclusion of a BD drive. That would, most likely, mean the PS3 would still launch at $600 without a BD drive.

At the time of launch the BD drive was far higher than 125 USD.

Regards,
SB
 
Once again your logic amazes me. Why would the price stay the same if they cut more than $100 off the cost of manufacture?
He's saying that promoting BR justified a higher subsidy than could be justified without it, so cutting it out wouldn't reduce the cost as much as manufacturing cost suggests.
 
At the time of launch the BD drive was far higher than 125 USD.

Regards,
SB

That's what I remember, the cost of the blu-ray drive was well over $200: (only found this)
http://www.cnet.com.au/playstation-3-component-prices-why-so-high-240060605.htm

And that's not including R&D costs (talking about the drive not BD format).

Sony also had to deal with shortage problems of the blu-ray laser. I have very little doubt that without blu-ray this console war would have had a very different outcome.
 
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It doesn't put money in Microsoft's pocket, but it put's money in Valve's pocket ...

If Microsoft had gone with some kind of Windows Light Mode which could only run certified games on certified hardware configurations I think it would have been unlikely Steam could have grown as large as it did (and of course they would have made money through the certification process). Even if Steam could also distribute certified games for the Windows Light Mode, Microsoft could easily offer better integration ... and without the XBOX distraction they probably would have done it too.
If Valve wants to fill that niche, more power to them. It makes windows more valuable, we sell more licences, and we don't do any of the work.

Analysts estimate Valve made $300-$400 million in revenue from Steam last year (not profit). XBox made that much in profit in one quarter. In revenue, we made ten times that amount. Windows would point and laugh at such tiny revenues.
 
And there I was hoping to see: "We know where you live, you use a Microsoft operating system. Remain there as our operatives are en-route to capture you and take you to an acredited Microsoft re-education center where you will learn the proper appreciation of all things Microsoft"

Can't get everything... :(
I appreciate the great effort and the right design decisions behind the Xbox 360, perhaps the most balanced console this generation, in my opinion. I say this mostly based on developers opinions' who worked on a lot of real world games and how they generally see the three consoles. I am pretty happy with it nowadays, although while I never suffered the RROD the first years of the console the hardware was way too prone to failure. A DVD Drive scratched my games' disc and when they returned me another console, it got the dreaded E74 error after a while.

However, the Slim is just an incredible console model. I bought it a month ago and I can't be happier with the purchase.

(Slightly off-topic so I will spoiler tag this part that I wrote about my opinion on other Microsoft products, especially Internet Explorer 9)

I also find Windows 7 to be a fine operating system. I began with DOS and they improved things a lot, certainly. :smile:

I also love Internet Explorer 9, it's very slick and fast. Firefox sucks, as it gets resources hungry after half an hour of use, at least in my computer, and Google Chrome is simply the best to me. Apparently simple but you can do a lot of things in no time with it.

As much as I like IE9, having tried it for more than a week, I still find myself coming back to Google Chrome, because while maybe IE9 is a tad faster, and I also prefer how the fonts display on web pages, it still lack some essential features to me.

Typical Microsoft stuff when it's about software. I'm mentioning features like a built-in spell checker, because there are days when I write a lot on the web and it makes things a lot easier to me. Besides that you can't do a search using the address bar, when I try it always says "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage".

Both features speed up navigation a lot, at least to me, so I always go back to Google Chrome, and I am very happy with it.

Chrome also gives you an option to translate entire pages automatically if you are in a web with a different language than your browser or OS. It's a feature that IE9 is missing right now. If they could improve those details and add something original on their own I would certainly use IE9 instead of Chrome. Firefox sucks so I don't mind never using it again, but I feel torn when it's about Chrome and Explorer.
 
Analysts estimate Valve made $300-$400 million in revenue from Steam last year (not profit). XBox made that much in profit in one quarter. In revenue, we made ten times that amount. Windows would point and laugh at such tiny revenues.
They've also made losses which would scare some of the smaller first world countries.

The issue though is not what XBOX is making ... it's the damage it's doing to windows, and what could have been. I really don't like Apple much (they're bad for hardware development/cost) and Microsoft is just making it far too easy for them, and XBOX is part of that.
 
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They've also made losses which would scare some of the smaller first world countries.

The issue though is not what XBOX is making ... it's the damage it's doing to windows, and what could have been. I really don't like Apple much and you're just making it far too easy for them, and XBOX is part of that.

What damage is Xbox doing to windows exactly?
The damage to windows is being done by the proliferation of handhelds and tablets and android. Most people just browse the net, use facebook and e-mail and some choose to get by with just an ipad or similar tablet.

WebOS is probably a bigger threat to windows given that HP is launching it as a notebook OS. As long as it can play flash games, that's what people care, windows gaming has been dying for a very long time and it definitely isn't because of the 360.
 
What damage is Xbox doing to windows exactly?
Anyone who uses a XBOX for gaming is that much more likely to simply not use windows at all ... you certainly don't have to stick to windows to use Office.
The damage to windows is being done by the proliferation of handhelds and tablets and android.
Tablets more than powerful enough to run Windows by the way.
windows gaming has been dying for a very long time and it definitely isn't because of the 360.
No, the XBOX merely caused Microsoft to never try to attack the causes ... and in the process attempting to saw out one of the legs holding up their core product.

Usability, stability, piracy ... Microsoft has always been the one in the best position to fix them all, they just lacked the impetus. Thanks to the XBOX.
 
Anyone who uses a XBOX for gaming is that much more likely to simply not use windows at all ... you certainly don't have to stick to windows to use Office.

Tablets more than powerful enough to run Windows by the way.

No, the XBOX merely caused Microsoft to never try to attack the causes ... and in the process attempting to saw out one of the legs holding up their core product.

Usability, stability, piracy ... Microsoft has always been the one in the best position to fix them all, they just lacked the impetus. Thanks to the XBOX.

You've made a lot of assertions about cause an affect and a lot of assumptions about how much control Microsoft has over consumer behavior simply by merit of having money without any actual data to support it other than, "in the growing PC market, MS's slice is a bit smaller than it was before, even though the total size of the pie is much bigger."

The bleed of PC usage into other device form factors and Microsoft's sluggishness to respond to that threat is completely independent from the XBox. As a company, MS is not sacrificing resources in Windows development to make the XBox (you can make some arguments about the fact that there isn't an unlimited supply of qualified developers, but MS is a *huge* company, and if you're going to make that argument, singling out XBox doesn't make a lot of sense anymore). MS was slow to invest seriously either mobile or tablet after Apple proved it could be done, but that's a strategy failure, not a tactics problem.

The reason that consoles are more popular than PC's for gaming these days is about more than just piracy. It's easier for developers to code for fixed targets, it's easier for consumers to deal with (no mucking about with drivers, etc) and so on.

Could Microsoft do something about some of these problems in Windows? Perhaps, but where's the benefit? MS doesn't get a substantial cut when someone releases a piece of software for a Windows PC. And if someone buys the game on console instead of Windows, it's still a sale of a piece of software on a Microsoft platform, so where's the harm?

In fact, in many cases it's *better* for MS because their core demo of office workers are probably going to have a copy of Windows for the PC in the home as well as an XBox. Now you got two sales where if all you did was slap live on PC you'd have had 1.


There simply isn't any data to support the conclusion that XBox has damaged Windows... and there can't be because it's not a measurable divide.
 
You've made a lot of assertions about cause an affect and a lot of assumptions about how much control Microsoft has over consumer behavior simply by merit of having money without any actual data to support it other than
Until I get my world simulation computer I can't determine what would have happened in an alternate reality ...
The bleed of PC usage into other device form factors and Microsoft's sluggishness to respond to that threat is completely independent from the XBox.
Just as unprovable as anything I say :)
As a company, MS is not sacrificing resources in Windows development to make the XBox
It's not about resources ... it's about direction.
Could Microsoft do something about some of these problems in Windows? Perhaps, but where's the benefit? MS doesn't get a substantial cut when someone releases a piece of software for a Windows PC.
Valve gets a substantial cut. The present situation in windows isn't too relevant though ... if they had introduced a special fool proof fully Microsoft administered windows mode (similar to the windows media center front end, or the XBOX dashboard for that matter) with hardware DRM they would have had the toll both for the release of software for that mode and for access to the hardware DRM.
And if someone buys the game on console instead of Windows, it's still a sale of a piece of software on a Microsoft platform, so where's the harm?
The harm is that windows binds people to Microsoft in a much more intimate way than a console, some of the consumers of today will be making IT decisions tomorrow.
In fact, in many cases it's *better* for MS because their core demo of office workers are probably going to have a copy of Windows for the PC in the home as well as an XBox. Now you got two sales where if all you did was slap live on PC you'd have had 1.
Or an Apple laptop running Office for Mac.
There simply isn't any data to support the conclusion that XBox has damaged Windows... and there can't be because it's not a measurable divide.
Just because it's not measurable doesn't mean it's not arguable.
 
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