VRS: Variable Rate Shading *spawn*

[BRiT]

Technical Articles on VRS (Variable Rate Shading)

Microsoft Blog on VRS: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/variable-rate-shading-a-scalpel-in-a-world-of-sledgehammers/

Developer Blog on Gears Tactics VRS: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/gears-tactics-vrs/

Digital Foundry Article on Gears Tactics VRS: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-gears-tactics-tech-analysis

3DMark Benchmarks for VRS: https://benchmarks.ul.com/news/new-ways-to-test-variable-rate-shading-with-3dmark and https://benchmarks.ul.com/news/test-variablerate-shading-with-3dmark

EDIT:

Developer Blog on Gears VRS Tier 2: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/gears-vrs-tier2/ and https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/moving-gears-to-tier-2-vrs-variable-rate-shading.62226/

 

[iroboto]

Video might be easier actually:

Video on GE or Mesh Shaders:

The reason you want to use GE/Mesh Shaders is to make sure you're only drawing the triangles you need and the amounts you need.
Once you're done all that work up front, the shading to those triangles/pixels occur. That's where VRS will step in.
One of those tweets, talks about how VRS is useless if you don't GE first. Which makes sense, you're still shading things that don't need to be shaded.

So cull and transform as required with GE/Mesh Shaders.
Then VRS.

If you don't VRS you can use things like dynamic resolution or reconstruction.

 

[function]

The next thing that needs to die (no pun intended, but I'll take it [even though I shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the die shot!! ]) is the idea that you can do VRS on the Geometry Engine.

 

[snc]

The next thing that needs to die (no pun intended, but I'll take it [even though I shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the die shot!! ]) is the idea that you can do VRS on the Geometry Engine.

but wasn't that suggested by developer Matt Hargett with access to both xsx and ps5 devkits ?

 

[function]

but wasn't that suggested by developer Matt Hargett with access to both xsx and ps5 devkits ?

Not as far as I'm aware. I remember a tweet where he said something to the effect of what happens on the GE is much more important for saving performance than VRS (which I'm sure is true).

So I think some people may have mistaken the point he was trying to make. VRS isn't as big an issue for next gen performance savings as some other more fundamental stuff.

 

[Dural]

Not as far as I'm aware. I remember a tweet where he said something to the effect of what happens on the GE is much more important for saving performance than VRS (which I'm sure is true).

So I think some people may have mistaken the point he was trying to make. VRS isn't as big an issue for next gen performance savings as some other more fundamental stuff.

Exactly, VRS will be more of a cherry on top that could help an unstable 60fps game be stable. It will also help certain genres, like racing games, more than others. I'd hope Turn10 and Playground will be fully utilizing VRS Tier2 for Motorsport and Horizon.

 

[snc]

It will also help certain genres, like racing games, more than others.

like in dirt 5 ? no thx ;d

 

[Globalisateur]

The next thing that needs to die (no pun intended, but I'll take it [even though I shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the die shot!! ]) is the idea that you can do VRS on the Geometry Engine.

I think this is what Matt Hargett was explaining: With their custom GE, they eventually won't need VRS as described by MS in order to improve performance as they'll improve more performance with their GE. And finally they probably thought it was more important to shade at full res all visible polygons and instead shade at higher res the most visible polygons (I'd agree with that). So in that sense their tech is also some kind of Variable Rate Shading.

Also we must not forget that MS needed a tech that would be easily compatible with their PC games and in that case their VRS will be much easier to implement on various hardware (they are already doing a good job at it). On the other hand Sony with PS5 can do whatever custom hardware they want (like their custom I/O) because it's going to be used on only one hardware.

I think the only good use of MS VRS is to spend less time at shading the polygons that are not visible for various reasons, and in that case Sony's solution will be much more efficient and smart: Why even render polygons that you know won't be visible?

 

[cwjs]

Exactly, VRS will be more of a cherry on top that could help an unstable 60fps game be stable. It will also help certain genres, like racing games, more than others. I'd hope Turn10 and Playground will be fully utilizing VRS Tier2 for Motorsport and Horizon.

Yeah. VRS is a like, save1-5 fps feature. Other parts of what consoles bring to the table (both consoles!) are much bigger. They don't replace vrs, but is not the end of the world not to have hardware vrs. It's just one good feature of many.

like in dirt 5 ? no thx ;d

this is super childish trolling.

 

[Vega86]

Is there a way for VRS to be automatically disabled so that it doesn't appear in screenshots?

 

[snc]

Yeah. VRS is a like, save1-5 fps feature. Other parts of what consoles bring to the table (both consoles!) are much bigger. They don't replace vrs, but is not the end of the world not to have hardware vrs. It's just one good feature of many.



this is super childish trolling.

why trolling ? there was suggestion that vrs is especially good for racing games (don't know why ? tracks are now laser scanned and quite detailed) and only racing game with vrs I know is dirt 5 and it looks far from great in this game

 

[Dural]

why trolling ? there was suggestion that vrs is especially good for racing games (don't know why ? tracks are now laser scanned and quite detailed) and only racing game with vrs I know is dirt 5 and it looks far from great in this game

The ground and a lot of the scenery has motion blur applied so VRS would shade them at a lower rate than the car, sky, and distant objects that aren't blurred. Dirt 5 is obviously bugged and applying a lower shading rate to the entire screen causing it to be blurred, using it as an example of VRS is, like CWJS said, trolling.

edit-As shown in this pic from Nvidia

 

[snc]

The ground and a lot of the scenery has motion blur applied so VRS would shade them at a lower rate than the car, sky, and distant objects that aren't blurred. Dirt 5 is obviously bugged and applying a lower shading rate to the entire screen causing it to be blurred, using it as an example of VRS is, like CWJS said, trolling.

its not trolling as its real life example and not theoretic one, if other racing game used vrs better I would change my mind

 

[Kugai Calo]

Is there a way for VRS to be automatically disabled so that it doesn't appear in screenshots?

It's up to the engine

The next thing that needs to die (no pun intended, but I'll take it [even though I shouldn't because it has nothing to do with the die shot!! ]) is the idea that you can do VRS on the Geometry Engine.

Those who believe so need a primer on GPU logical pipeline and what VRS does itself!

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

I think this is what Matt Hargett was explaining: With their custom GE, they eventually won't need VRS as described by MS in order to improve performance as they'll improve more performance with their GE. And finally they probably thought it was more important to shade at full res all visible polygons and instead shade at higher res the most visible polygons (I'd agree with that). So in that sense their tech is also some kind of Variable Rate Shading.

Also we must not forget that MS needed a tech that would be easily compatible with their PC games and in that case their VRS will be much easier to implement on various hardware (they are already doing a good job at it). On the other hand Sony with PS5 can do whatever custom hardware they want (like their custom I/O) because it's going to be used on only one hardware.

I think the only good use of MS VRS is to spend less time at shading the polygons that are not visible for various reasons, and in that case Sony's solution will be much more efficient and smart: Why even render polygons that you know won't be visible?

What Matt basically said, besides many thing which I found a bit perplexing, is that if you cull efficiently as possible you wont have to worry about shading part, ie VRS - performance gain would be minimal.

This I agree with actually, I dont think we will get more then few fps bump with good looking VRS, that can still be done in SW so not sure if it is worth of hussle.

 

[RagnarokFF]

I think this is what Matt Hargett was explaining: With their custom GE, they eventually won't need VRS as described by MS in order to improve performance as they'll improve more performance with their GE.

False, he never implied VRS won't be needed. In fact he says you want to use both.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1249372008967581697

 

[RagnarokFF]

[

its not trolling as its real life example and not theoretic one, if other racing game used vrs better I would change my mind

It is trolling. Gears is a real life example with good VRS usage and I think VRS can be even better for racing games, because of the speed the gamer sometimes travel with. Dirt 5 being a bad example, doesn't make the solution trash. Just like RDR2 doesn't make checkerboard rendering trash.

Sry dp

 

[snc]

[It is trolling. Gears is a real life example with good VRS usage and I think VRS can be even better for racing games, because of the speed the gamer sometimes travel with. Dirt 5 being a bad example, doesn't make the solution trash. Just like RDR2 doesn't make checkerboard rendering trash.
Sry dp

didn't say vrs is trash (always good to have additional performance tweak feature tough its not a killer one) but was funny for me that somebody use racing genre as an example but only usage we have is dirt 5 and is opposite of good implementation

 

[thicc_gaf]

didn't say vrs is trash (always good to have additional performance tweak feature tough its not a killer one) but was funny for me that somebody use racing genre as an example but only usage we have is dirt 5 and is opposite of good implementation

Does the Forza Horizon 4 update on Series X and S use VRS? Can't remember specifically what DF said in their video for it.

 

[Remij]

I really hate this "features war" stuff going on by fanboys who very clearly don't understand the technologies, or worse, purposefully want to twist the words of people in the industry to suit their narratives... which just causes more misinformation to spread and actually inhibits constructive discussion. Developers may not want to even share any information at all for fear of being misrepresented.. and that would be a shame.

I think to myself sometimes how crazy it is that I can actually message, and converse with actual game developers who literally worked and created the games I love. We have unprecedented access to these people these days, and it's both a blessing and a curse.. for obvious reasons.

Anyway.. VRS is amazing, I'm sure Sony's Geometry Engine is going to do amazing things, Mesh Shaders are amazing.. as well as everything else these consoles support. Instead of fighting about them, just be happy that some developers put in a lot of work to get those optimizations into their games to begin with. With this newest generation of consoles with their I/O capabilities, RT and their improved APIs, we're in the middle of a paradigm shift and it's going to take developers time to get their engines built/modified to take advantage of it all. 2nd or 3rd generation PS5 and Series X games will look ridiculous. Unreal Engine 5 has already given us a little glimpse of what's possible.