TSMC to begin 65nm production by end of the year.
- Thread starter PC-Engine
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Sometime during it's lifetime? Well no doubt there. The benefit of this and greater. This should translate down to the 360 sometime next year I imagine, and I don't doubt Sony's Nagasaki fab will be close behind. In fact, maybe TSMC's, Intel's, and AMD's seeming 'ready to go' postures on 65nm lately will reflect in a possible early move to the process by Sony at Nagasaki, though launch on 65nm is probably just that little bit out of reach still.
Hmm i wonder if that customer is ms . They really don't need the high speed or general purpose and the lower power version would keep the heat output of the xenos and xcpu down .
THat way you get both cooling costs down and the cost of the silicon .
Anyway i highly doubt we will see production coming out of tmsc at 65nm till the end of qtr 1 2006 .
But its nice to know that both the x360 and ps3 should hit 65nm in the first year of thier lives
THat way you get both cooling costs down and the cost of the silicon .
Anyway i highly doubt we will see production coming out of tmsc at 65nm till the end of qtr 1 2006 .
But its nice to know that both the x360 and ps3 should hit 65nm in the first year of thier lives
jvd said:
Well if we think that we would have or a better product (spec wise) or a a cheaper one I think I would prefer to wait 4-6 mouths and let the XB fade slower ( I also think that it is because MS that we will see the PS3 so soon).
PS: anyway I think that both consoles are great.
well look al lwe know is they are planning 65nm for this year. WE don't know the numbers .
Ms needs to launch in nov and they need alot of units for that . So they will most likely start making systems by august the latest .
Sony watns to ship some where in the world for next spring . Which means they will be making systems around holiday 2005 . I highly doubt either of them will have acess to 65nm in the numbers they would need for a launch till at least next summer .
Ms needs to launch in nov and they need alot of units for that . So they will most likely start making systems by august the latest .
Sony watns to ship some where in the world for next spring . Which means they will be making systems around holiday 2005 . I highly doubt either of them will have acess to 65nm in the numbers they would need for a launch till at least next summer .
Revolutions GPU should start at 90nm yes. Because we've already heard from MoSys that it will use 1t-SRam-Q on NEC's 90nm process. Though that could change I suppose depending on the final release date and when NEC get their 65nm process going.
But Revolutions IBM CPU could very well be 65nm from the start.
It does seem next-gen is premature, at the very tail end of a manufacturing process that will shortly be superseded. 6 months would do both Sony and MS a world of favours. I don't know why MS pushed so early.
I agree - I think MS did this just to a) stem the losses from XBox, b) force Sony to act prematurely, and c) make a bold play to grab mindshare.
I think in all of these respects they have been successful, though I can't help but think maybe Kutagari in fact should have waited that extra six months if it meant the opportunity to essentially double-up on launch components.
@Teasy: I was agreeing with your line of logic up until you reminded me of IBM being the actual supplier of the chips. My understanding is that IBM is fairly weak in the actual manufacturing department, something all the more surprising seeing how they trail-blaze on some the actual process tech. I don't know if they'll have 65nm ready for Nintendo in all honesty, but we'll see. I certainly think that Nintendo should be able to take advantage of 65nm before their console launches.
I think in all of these respects they have been successful, though I can't help but think maybe Kutagari in fact should have waited that extra six months if it meant the opportunity to essentially double-up on launch components.
@Teasy: I was agreeing with your line of logic up until you reminded me of IBM being the actual supplier of the chips. My understanding is that IBM is fairly weak in the actual manufacturing department, something all the more surprising seeing how they trail-blaze on some the actual process tech. I don't know if they'll have 65nm ready for Nintendo in all honesty, but we'll see. I certainly think that Nintendo should be able to take advantage of 65nm before their console launches.
Shifty Geezer said:
Well there are some reasons . At 90nm your first price reduction comes with in a year of launch.
With 65nm it may be as long as 2 -3 years before you get a shrink to 45nm .
It would have been better for us if the deisngs started at 65nm but for the companys it seems better at 90nm
Rather then wait for a price reduction, actually get the lower price to being with.jvd said:
If XB360 launches on 90nm, and costs say $375 to make, and a process shrink drops the price to $275 (guesswork), if they instead wait for the 65 nm process, they can design a smaller, cooler, quieter box (same specs) that'll cost $250 at launch.
Sony were in no rush to get PS3 ready. xbdestroyer may be right in both wanting to stem the losses from XB (maybe MS knew nVidia were going to stop supplying chips this year well in advance?) and to trump Sony, forcing their hand and rushing PS3's design (if PS3 was launched on 65 nm, perhaps 1:8 Cell and cheaper price means included HD?). I can definitely believe the shrewd business strategy of the latter!
Teasy said:
I thought IBM partnered with AMD to help them set up the fab and the SOI process there - I don't think IBM has any fabbing rights in Dresden though. If I'm mistaken though do correct me, because I would truly be interested to know what the extent of the Dresden partnership is.
As for IBM's home grown 65nm tech, I know that Sony is helping to pay for a 65nm upgraded line at East Fishkill, to be partly dedicated to Cell production, and that IBM recently signed an agreement with Samsung for cooperation in reaching 65nm.
http://www.theregister.com/2004/03/05/samsung_joins_ibm_65nm_r/
Except now they have to wait a year and go directly again sony where as this way they can release for a holiday with no one else
Sony can't wait till 65nm is ready for them , there has been no news about thier targets in a long time , last i heard fiscal 05 would be when the plants go on line , with no word on how long it would take for them to mass produce chips and that is with out any problems .
Sony is in the same boat as ms , launch in a reasonable time frame with thier competition vs wait for 65nm but give thier competition even more time alone on the market .
Sony is srewed enough to know that giving ms two x masses in the states is a big mistake
Megadrive1988
Veteran
I kinda wished that the CPUs and GPUs for Xbox 360 and PS3 could've been designed around and launched on, 65nm - it seems they've missed 65nm by a few months, but in the console war, launching on time means everything.
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