Toy Story versus... *spawn

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

Round 1: Toy Story versus... Ratchet and Clank PS4

The beauty of this game is beyond words, dat Pixar quality graphics does not make the 6 extra days wait any easier for us Aussies.

This game looks great, but out of respect for Pixar, please stop. Even using the realtime cutscenes to exclude the gameplay assets from Rachet and Clank it still gets outclassed by the original Toy Story released in the year 1995.

 

[ultragpu]

This game looks great, but out of respect for Pixar, please stop. Even using the realtime cutscenes to exclude the gameplay assets from Rachet and Clank it still gets outclassed by the original Toy Story released in the year 1995.

I admit it's not close to the newer Pixar movies but TS1? Ratchet absolutely destroys it.

 

[MrFox]

I think Pixar sucks.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

I admit it's not close to the newer Pixar movies but TS1? Ratchet absolutely destroys it.

How ironic

 

[Clukos]

It definitely can't touch CGI in terms of pure polygons (polygonal edges can be seen everywhere) but it gets pretty close in looking like CG sometimes (even though technically is inferior in every way), some of my shots during cutscenes:

 

[MrFox]

Dreamworks are better than Pixar.

 

[function]

Dreamworks are better than Pixar.

 

[Megadrive1988]

It should be really interesting to see what a next-gen R&C could look like on future PlayStation console (not PS4K / Neo) assuming Insomniac Games does another R&C game in ~5 more years or so.

 

[London Geezer]

It should be really interesting to see what a next-gen R&C could look like on future PlayStation console (not PS4K / Neo) assuming Insomniac Games does another R&C game in ~5 more years or so.

It will look incredible. At 15fps.

 

[Shortbread]

It definitely can't touch CGI in terms of pure polygons (polygonal edges can be seen everywhere) but it gets pretty close in looking like CG sometimes (even though technically is inferior in every way), some of my shots during cutscenes:

Those pic's look gorgeous...

Interesting fact time....

According to Susman, the Pixar team initially thought they could render the film over 20 months using 53 processors. Each of the machines in the render farm was named after an animal, and when it completed a frame it would play the corresponding animal’s sound. The number of machines eventually grew to 300, but even that pales in comparison to the computing power Pixar wields today. Susman said that the company now has 23,000 processors at its disposal — enough to render the original Toy Story in real time.

So yeah guys, not for a long time... a very Very VERY long time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not rendering using the same technique. However, compare the FLOPs power of those original 300 processors to modern GPUs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/2jvyt0/in_1995_pixar_rendered_toy_story_on_a_294_x/

SPARCstation 20 (single processor) had SunOS 5.4 installed and used a HyperSPARC @100 MHz with 27.5066 MFLOPS

Theoretical maximum performance of the setup used by PIXAR

294 * 27.5066 = 8086.94 MFLOPS

Movie was rendered at 1526x922 pixels using Stochastic Anti-Aliasing Scan-line rendering used, shadow mapping for shadows ( no ray tracing )

Movie Length ~ 75 minutes Number of rendered frames = 110064 Movie frame rate ~ 25 frames per second Rendering time = 46 days

In comparison a top of the line AMD R9 295x2 is 11.5 teraflops , which based on my math ( assuming it scales linearly ) would render the movie in 46.58 minutes

These debates always come down to the same thing really. The visceral response of 'Pixar Like' games makes the games seem CGI like, but when you get down to the nitty-gritty, they're not. I've seen screenshots of R&C and questioned whether they're from the game or movie, but then you look at the gameplay sections with flat surfaces, simplified lighting, etc., and realise it looks nothing like a movie.

But then that's because a movie has a particular look. That's why the cutscenes can look CGI like, where the rendering power is more focussed, but the cutscenes are always disqualified from counting for some reason. Gameplay wise, it's doubtful we'll get CGI like for a whiles because we're having to fit in a lot more than Toy Story ever did. But definitely a modern system could render Toy Story quality in real time, especially using modern rendering techniqes instead of Renderman. Could probably improve in a lot of areas too like PBR and better materials. Just noone gonna waste time making a realtime Toy Story clone when you can just watch the BluRay...

 

[Karamazov]

the ordr has that "CGI feel" during gameplay because of lot of shortcuts, tricks and good art, it's obviously far for realtime CGI but definitly has that feel.

this video captures that feel IMO

 

[London Geezer]

It definitely can't touch CGI in terms of pure polygons (polygonal edges can be seen everywhere) but it gets pretty close in looking like CG sometimes (even though technically is inferior in every way), some of my shots during cutscenes:

As has been said many times, the new R&C needs to be played by everyone just to see the beauty - also the jokes are f'king brilliant - but my main question here is...

On those pictures, the one thing that would already elevate the image closer to whatever Pixar-level people have in their minds would be the elimination of those very few polygonal edges we can still see here and there.

Now, how taxing would that actually be on current hardware? I can't think it would be that much more than it already is. We're talking cutscenes here at 30fps. We've seen current hardware push a lot of geometry and very smooth curves, so is the real issue a hardware one or simply asset creation and development decisions? Heck, I know it's a totally different game but I do remember the PS3 version of GT5 (or 4?) using some sort of realtime tessellation on the cars. So it can't be that difficult on current hardware.

This is what keeps me awake on a Sunday night after an evening out, on a bank holiday weekend.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

On those pictures, the one thing that would already elevate the image closer to whatever Pixar-level people have in their minds would be the elimination of those very few polygonal edges we can still see here and there.

Lets not forget, Toy Story is a film, and the difference between it and R&C is an order of magnitude. Watch Toy Story again, preferably the Blu Ray or Digital version.

This conversation is comedy for me, like it's not even close..

 

[London Geezer]

Not sure what the point of that comment was. All I asked was how much, realistically, it would take to get rid of the last few polygonal edges we can see on R&C, as an example. Drop the attitude sweetheart, it's really not necessary.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

"the one thing that would already elevate the image closer to whatever Pixar-level people have in their minds would be the elimination of those very few polygonal edges we can still see here and there."

In the case of my mind, if R&C had rounded silhouettes, there will still be a massive gulf between the two. From the lighting in the scene to the movement of objects in a scene, I mean for example Andy's bed blanket having deformation in a believable manner from the toys walking on it. In the case of lighting, one example is light passing through the skin of Sid illuminating underneath the skin surface during a storm in one scene. Check out the reflection in Buzz's helmet visor compared to Rachet's helmet in the pictures above. And, the list goes on.

Even if the two were on the same technical level, I will still consider Toy Story a higher class from how pleasing the lighting is in the film compared to R&C's offline render target, personally.

 

[zed]

dunno toy story can look pretty bad sometimes, eg the textures, the mapping, the gooch lighting model (what is this 1995? oh wait it is )

 

[MrFox]

Lets not forget, Toy Story is a film, and the difference between it and R&C is an order of magnitude. Watch Toy Story again, preferably the Blu Ray or Digital version.

This conversation is comedy for me, like it's not even close..

So you're saying once we get 10 times more pixarness in games... they will finally be like pixar.

 

[PeanutButterOnPickles]

dunno toy story can look pretty bad sometimes, eg the textures, the mapping, the gooch lighting model (what is this 1995? oh wait it is )

In Y'all definition that's bad, but for me that shot is beautiful!

I honestly love all the "flaws" in the original Toy Story. Example, the unsynchronization of the blinking animations, just beauty!

 

[Clukos]

Few more