Just the AF on second watch. I originally thought the shadows looked noisier than High, particularly in the 'models' comparison around 8 min, but going back and having another look they actually look about the same as High I think.
The Last of Us, Part 1 Remaster Remaster [PS5, PC]
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
Just the AF on second watch. I originally thought the shadows looked noisier than High, particularly in the 'models' comparison around 8 min, but going back and having another look they actually look about the same as High I think.
Debateable and if also you are talking about PC versions because Cyberpunk sucked on PS4 and Flight Sim not only is a totally apples to humburger comparison, it runs on next gen hardware.
Would you care to mention a like for like comparison of a game that was released back then?
I mean, i cant invent a similar game relased at the same time if nobody released one exactly afterwards, cant i ? It doesnt even matter, because the initial post i made about this is how ND are inflated in a very artificial manner regarding the visual prowess of their games. When their fans claim that they're the best, they dont try to segment it the way you do. They think it looks better than any game on any platform. So i'll compare them in that way. Nevermind that they had the misfortune of launching uncharted 1, 3 and the first last of us in the same year with Crysis 1,2 and 3. So them being on top graphically is out of the question for those games. Uncharted 4 launched alongside Doom, Battlefield 1, Quantum Break, Dishonored 2, Divison, Gears 4, etc. The game stacks favourably against this selection, but its not some slam dunk. And then we get to last of us 2 which i already covered.
Its a situation where this studio has never in their entire existence released a game that was the best graphically of that year, yet you sparse various online comunities and you will see that claim often. And i always found it bizzare.
My point isn't that the game looks terrible. It's just that it was clearly a 'last gen' game with many weaknesses, which I think that screenshot does a decent job of highlighting.
To be clear - I love TLOU1 + 2. I think they're fantastic games and I think they are monumental achievements in terms of animations and character interactions and whatnot. But the idea that it's better looking than actual next gen games is purely ridiculous.
I'm getting a new CPU.. this 3900X just isn't cutting it anymore. Obviously I know it's largely the issue of optimization with this particular game, and that a lot of other games perform excellently with my CPU.. but with this game it's impossible to hold a steady 60fps. Just spinning the camera around with cause a bunch of micro-stuttering at times, while other times it will be fine. It's actually a lot better and more consistent with using a 3rd party frame-limiter like RTSS or Nvidia's max FPS driver setting. But if I want to keep the game relatively consistent, I have to limit my FPS to 45...
Hopefully they can fix it up a bit more though patches, because as it is it's extremely disappointing..
Hopefully they can fix it up a bit more though patches, because as it is it's extremely disappointing..
What games dont have weaknesses?
It isnt about finding something that is exactly the same. But a game where it focuses on similar strengths.
For example if I compare GT Sport with a Plaque's Tale whats the point? Either GT is garbage because it doesnt have good looking characters or A Plague's Tale is garbage because it doesnt have good looking cars.
The praise Naughty Dog games get is justifiable as they have outstanding attention to detail and are pushing technically the console. All of ND games pushed the envelope on what the hardware could achieve with crazy variety in environments and attention to detail. There is a flow, density and variety of visual features that other game's didnt try to implement in a single title. Quantum Break and Doom for example are more or less taking place in few settings with pretty much a stable static presentation and flat focus across the whole game. It doesnt matter for example if in Doom you are playing in a sci fi base or in hell. It feels and plays exactly the same. Same with every title you mention.
Most games feel mechanical. But Naughty Dog tries to tell a story in every visual and adds subtle quite often even details that other developers would have considered unnecessary that you need to pay attention to consciously describe, but unconsciously you sense them.
Take Uncharted 4 for example, and the game traverses you to multiple locations, each focusing on different kind of technical achievements blending animations, character detail, physics and a variety of interactions and seamless set pieces creating a density of polish and variety that you rarely find in a single title. It takes you from cities, to the sea, to caves, to ruins, to abandoned cities, each with its own unique look, polish and visual features and specific technical implementation that are specific to each environment.
It is the whole coherence and visual density of the package that makes Naughty Dog games so impressive and believable.
Most games feel sterile even though they punch incredible detail because they are too focused on static detail and only some specific effects that sell their games.
I played Crysis 2 and all Gears of War games on my 360, and even though they were detailed, they felt super flat compared to the polished roller coaster ride that were the Uncharted games. I played Destiny, I enjoyed it it looked good, but it felt sterile compared to Uncharted 4. Division is not even worth mentioning.
Regarding TLOU2, the variety in the environments is simply outwordly, with every town, environment and building telling their own story. The characters and their animations are more believable than any other game I ve played back then. What makes their games so impressive isnt just the static detail, but how cohesively everything blends and how everything tells a story.
Surely you can find games that compete in static detail, but it is not just the static detail were ND excels. It is how it focuses on so many aspects that comprise a world and polishes in a way that everything is cohesive and speak with each other.
This isnt about how their games look better than anything else in everything. But how their games are uniquely executed.
Last edited:
How do you describe quality of assets without omitting the whole cohesiveness and dynamic aspects of the visuals or its art?
I talked about variety, animation and physics being in abundance.
from what i observed
- Lots of amazing handcrafted details: pillows deforms, lights always looks great (check the debug mode free camera videos to see the trickery), etc
- quite dated engine and/or design phylosophy (akin to FF16): wooden blending between animation A to B, weird looking fabric.
But is this quantity of quality assets/effects really tied to technical aspects or something else ?
That's probably the point of contention here.
I don't think it is but the true is probably in the middle.
davis.anthony
Veteran
I've not long got out the Sewer and game is running like a champ now since the patch, no stutters and not a single crash.
I think ND's games touched all aspects both technical and quality of assets.
And my question is, without being a tech geek, how do you communicate all these in a single post in depth and detail?
Good rundown from Steve. Seems to be a lot of hype over nothing. The game runs fine on medium tier hardware at medium settings. You need ultra hardware for ultra settings.
Personally the IQ at ultra doesn’t justify the high hardware requirements but that’s a different story.
Man, hard to imagine 24GB of VRAM. The 7900xtx is quite a good price for that level of memory.
anyone have random crashes on v 1010, use 2.9.9 oodle (from game ver 1016) , and try enabling "don't use optimization for windowed games".
anyone got more often crashes on 1016 (usually in less than 10 minutes), downgrade to 1010
anyone got more often crashes on 1016 (usually in less than 10 minutes), downgrade to 1010
davis.anthony
Veteran
15GB VRAM at 4k, the game is only 80GB meaning there's 20% of the game in VRAM at any given time
And that's not even counting system RAM, with that it could be 30% of the game in memory at any given time.
DavidGraham
Veteran
That's crazy. It's either so unoptimized (memory wise) to an obscene level, they screwed up their DX12 implementation of the game, and did so little memory management, that it became such a memory hog, .. or something else more sinister happened to the game (see below). The game is not bad on processing power, but memory is a major problem for both RAM and VRAM!
I am starting to think this is an AMD thing, the game is an AMD sponsored title, AMD did a similar thing with Far Cry 6, where it required more than 12GB to access Ultra textures for no good reason. I mean Uncharted wasn't like this, none of the PlayStation ports on PC were like this. AMD might have influenced this one just like Far Cry 6.15GB VRAM at 4k, the game is only 80GB meaning there's 20% of the game in VRAM at any given time
And that's not even counting system RAM, with that it could be 30% of the game in memory at any given time.
On my 2080Ti and 16GB system, both VRAM and RAM are 99% full at almost all times, even though what's on screen doesn't justify such high memory demands! I have never seen anything like this! The game is comprised of small sections/corridors stitched together by loading times, it's not like it's an open world game full of new stuff every few seconds! It's rather limited in scope and asset variability!
Last edited:
Nah that performance is still atrocious. Some reference points from the video and I've added in PS5 locked, and an estimate of unlocked performance based on Olivers Digital Foundry analysis here:
1440p
Ultra
6650XT: 31
3060: 35
3070: 46
3080: 62
6800: 57
High
6650XT: 42
3060: 44
3070: 60
3080: 83
6800: 71
PS5 Locked: 60
PS5 Unlocked: 70-80
Medium
6650XT: 48
3060: 52
3070: 72
3080: 93
6800: 79
4K
Ultra
6650XT: 14
3060: 18
3070: 27
3080: 36
6800: 32
High
6650XT: 22
3060: 24
3070: 31
3080: 47
6800: 39
PS5 Locked: 30
PS5 Unlocked: 30-45fps
Medium
6650XT: 23
3060: 28
3070: 40
3080: 56
6800: 45
Granted, this isn't a like for like scene comparison and I'm only estimating the PS5 runs at the equivalent of PC High settings (it appears very close aside from lower AF based on comparison videos, certainly above Medium), but based on this you would need a 3080 to exceed the PS5, albeit marginally, and a 3070 falls well behind.
I included the 6800 as well to completely remove any VRAM related performance losses and even here we can see the PS5 performing roughly in line with that GPU. And to put the nail in the coffin I included the 6650Xt which on paper is a very similarly spec'd GPU to the PS5. And here we can see the PS5 obliterating it by 50% or more. This game is horribly optimised for PC. Literally the worst of this generation so far.
davis.anthony
Veteran
Thinking about it, why is this a DX12 title?
Surely with their engine coming off the back of PS4 surely DX11 would have been a better fit, easier and enabled better performance?
Surely with their engine coming off the back of PS4 surely DX11 would have been a better fit, easier and enabled better performance?
