The controller family tree

[Fox5]

The Xbox 360 controller looks so nice doesn't it? 8)

BTW I don't like that Revolution controller concept. It just looks very painful to my thumbs.

It looks mostly the same as the gamecube controller, except without bean shaped buttons...

Well the most used thumb pads have been swapped into the lower positions.

Just like the ps2 controller!

The Saturn's analog pad, with a thumb-indent stick design, six button layout and analog triggers, is nothing at all like the N64's or much of any other analog pad for that matter, and it's also one of the best liked controller designs by many.

I actually preferred the saturn 3d controller to the dreamcast's.
Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if the saturn analog controller and the n64 controller evolved independently of each other, they probably both evolved off of the need for analog movement and various ideas companies had put out.(though nintendo and sega may both have seen or heard rumors about each other's controllers during the designs and made some decisions off of that)

 

[PC-Engine]

Just like the ps2 controller!

Yes but it seems even lower than the PS2's. Who knows it might work.

 

[Guden Oden]

NiGHTS was in development for years

But was THE PAD? Hardly, I'd say, or that eyeball-like thingy wouldn't have been so awkward to use compared to Nintendo's far superior and well-balanced mushroom-shaped stick. It is very obviously a knee-jerk response to what Nintendo was doing.

and the 3D Control Pad was integral to the smooth 360 degree movement of the character.

...That flew around on rails...! Nothing in Nights needed an analog stick.

Cut-and-paste jobbie with almost no doubt at all. Only sega fanpeople would outright deny it. Heck, nights itself wasn't much of a game really, the only who are nostalgic about it today are those same sega fanpeople...

The Saturn's analog pad, with a thumb-indent stick design, six button layout and analog triggers, is nothing at all like the N64's or much of any other analog pad for that matter

How you could say it's "nothing at all" like the N64 pad when the only real thing that differs from it is the flipper triggers and some minor layout differences.

and it's also one of the best liked controller designs by many.

This is a fanperson way of saying "I have no way of actually KNOWING WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, I'll just use some big words in a general kind of way to make it sound as if I have a clue"...

I've never met a console gamer who liked saturn's analog pad above the other alternatives. Never EVER. Probably not strange, since the weird eyeball stick coupled with its awkward location made it poor from a precision/ergonomic standpoint.

 

[jvd]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

 

[Guden Oden]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory

No, I don't agree at all. That it came out a year (give or take) earlier gives it even less time for development and refinement.

and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

In what ways? The DC pad's analog stick is easily 200% better, except for the lack of buttons there's really nothing wrong with it at all (apart from that it looks huge perhaps, but that's mainly an aesthetic issue).

 

[jvd]

No, I don't agree at all. That it came out a year (give or take) earlier gives it even less time for development and refinement.

Well then I guess the nes controler shouldn't have links to the xbox 360 controller since the xbox 360 controller came out two decades later and had more time for development and refinement .

The controler chart should go by what lead the way for the controler types . The nes controler lead the way to the super nes and genesis controller (later the psone controller ) and the saturn controller led the way for the anlog stick controllers .

In what ways? The DC pad's analog stick is easily 200% better, except for the lack of buttons there's really nothing wrong with it at all (apart from that it looks huge perhaps, but that's mainly an aesthetic issue).

The analog stick on the saturn pad was much more responsive than the dc controllers . I've used both extensively

 

[archie4oz]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

 

[jvd]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

are you sure as I remember importing the game and my friend was still waiting to get his n64

 

[Lazy8s]

Guden Oden:

Hardly, I'd say, or that eyeball-like thingy wouldn't have been so awkward to use compared to Nintendo's far superior and well-balanced mushroom-shaped stick.

The Saturn's thumb stick was designed ergonomically to be the exact opposite of an eyeball; the top was slightly concave to fit the user's thumb like with the Xbox's pads.

Many Saturn games, even early ones like Panzer Dragoon and Sega Rally interestingly, worked great with the analog pad.

...That flew around on rails...! Nothing in Nights needed an analog stick.

A character in flight moves along more axes than a grounded one, so 360 degree movement was necessary for a smooth control arch across a set flight path. Extra control functionality beyond a thumb pad is needed to allow a full sphere of control in 3D space, which is what the prototype NiGHTS sequel called AeroNiGHTS did by using a tilt sensor. Also, the on-foot parts of NiGHTS are free roaming 3D.

Another specific feature of the NiGHTS pad was that it had a detachable cord where an expansion pack, like a tilt sensor, could be added.

Heck, nights itself wasn't much of a game really, the only who are nostalgic about it today are those same sega fanpeople...

NiGHTS offers completely fluid 360 degree flight, emergent flight pathfinding within the level design, persistent worlds in each of its levels where the inhabitants breed and evolve into new species upon multiple playthroughs, dynamically composed soundtrack based on the mood of the world's inhabitants, world themes based upon the Saturn's internal clock/calender, and many other innovative features.

How you could say it's "nothing at all" like the N64 pad when the only real thing that differs from it is the flipper triggers and some minor layout differences.

It shares less in common with the N64 controller than any other analog pad, from being shaped like a UFO instead of a three-pronged boomerang, to having a completely different button layout with the thumb stick located in a completely different region, to introducing the first full fledged analog triggers, to the indented thumb pad.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

How about because it was never seen in that form before? There's only so much innovation you can have for physical control mechanics, and a PC joystick would never have gone well on a console. Heck, sony's initial dual analog controller was two pc joysticks on a base, and it bombed, the full size joysticks just aren't as usable for a wide range of games as the thumb stick, and you give up certain ergonomics and a significant number of buttons.
If you want, just say all ideas are evolutionary, the airplane is just an evolution of the bicycle.

Hopefully I'm not getting into semantics now (I'll drop it in that case), but then wouldn't the DS be an innovation having two analog sticks? And the XB/GC another innovation moving the analog sticks to different locations? Wouldn't a 6-button face be an innovation over a 4-face/2-shoulder design? We could give credit to the companies that first went wireless. Those that went with IR, and then those that went with RF. Each was a different technology. What about the first controllers with "legs" to grip? That was another innovation. It seems like console gamers give manufacturers an awful lot of credit for simply borrowing ideas and slapping them lego-style onto their original controllers. But I'll just drop it. It has nothing to do with the thread anyway, I don't think.

BTW, the airplane can't be an evolution of the bike simply b/c the airfoil itself was a different design. The bike mechanics are merely a part of an airplane's designs. But a bike was made to interact with the ground, and a wing designed to interact with the air. The airplane was an evolution of aerodynamics...or rather, the other way around. Those Wright Brothers could have invented the first Indycar. PEACE.

 

[Lazy8s]

archie4oz:

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

The Saturn's 3D Pad and NiGHTS launched at the beginning of July 1996, within two weeks of the N64 and long before the PlayStation's controller.

 

[Fox5]

How about because it was never seen in that form before? There's only so much innovation you can have for physical control mechanics, and a PC joystick would never have gone well on a console. Heck, sony's initial dual analog controller was two pc joysticks on a base, and it bombed, the full size joysticks just aren't as usable for a wide range of games as the thumb stick, and you give up certain ergonomics and a significant number of buttons.
If you want, just say all ideas are evolutionary, the airplane is just an evolution of the bicycle.

Hopefully I'm not getting into semantics now (I'll drop it in that case), but then wouldn't the DS be an innovation having two analog sticks? And the XB/GC another innovation moving the analog sticks to different locations? Wouldn't a 6-button face be an innovation over a 4-face/2-shoulder design? We could give credit to the companies that first went wireless. Those that went with IR, and then those that went with RF. Each was a different technology. What about the first controllers with "legs" to grip? That was another innovation. It seems like console gamers give manufacturers an awful lot of credit for simply borrowing ideas and slapping them lego-style onto their original controllers. But I'll just drop it. It has nothing to do with the thread anyway, I don't think.

I would consider all those innovations, but not all innovations are equally great.
To think, if Sony hadn't done the dual shock, we'd either be holding two n64 controllers for dual analog, or still using face buttons!

 

[Squeak]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

are you sure as I remember importing the game and my friend was still waiting to get his n64

I remember reading in EDGE that Mario 64 was tested with a NiGHTs controller until they had final hardware.

 

[Fox5]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

are you sure as I remember importing the game and my friend was still waiting to get his n64

I remember reading in EDGE that Mario 64 was tested with a NiGHTs controller until they had final hardware.

That's highly suspect.

 

[Squeak]

The very fact that it came out before the n64 controler (by about a year ) and was shown off before that goes against your theory , THe controler itself while ugly does its job very well and the anlog stick is better than the dc anlog stick in some ways

Hoho! Now there's a fib! The Saturn analog controller launched with NiGHTs and the game was still in development when the N64 launched and wasn't released 'till December 1996 (as was the SCPH-1050 Dual Analog controller)

are you sure as I remember importing the game and my friend was still waiting to get his n64

I remember reading in EDGE that Mario 64 was tested with a NiGHTs controller until they had final hardware.

That's highly suspect.

But it would work. All the buttons are there and the timeframe seems to fit.