TGS: Electronic Arts Talks MoH PS3, Next-Gen Costs

Kb-Smoker

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i know its EA and they are not know to make the best looking games but i thought some of you would like to check this out. :???:

Following the two major keynotes from Microsoft and Nintendo on the first day of Tokyo Game Show at the Makuhari Messe, the afternoon's proceedings saw a special CEDEC Premium event, curated by IGDA Japan's Kiyoshi Shin. This featured John Buchanan, self-described 'university research liaison dude' and former director of advanced technology for EA Vancouver, as well as Neil Young, general manager of EA Los Angeles, speaking to a room of Japanese developers on Electronic Arts' approach to game development.

Both talks had some fascinating insights into EA's strategy for the next generation of consoles, but Young's in particular, part practical and part high-level concept, outlined some of the publisher's inner thought processes over the last 18 months or so. Specifically, Young discussed the 'anatomy of a hit', noting that, in the company's view, high-quality execution, 1-3 design innovations and audience appeal are the ideal combination to produce both a critical and commercial hit, the goal of all Electronic Arts' titles.

Young noted that high quality execution on its own, with great AI, control, physics and so on, gives you a baseline average score, on a GameRankings-style site, of an 80% rating. It's vital - of the top 60 games of the past 3 years in North America, just 11 products had average ratings under 80% - but that's not necessarily enough. He then pointed out important game design differentiators - from the 'mod' for Doom to the gravity gun in Half-Life 2 and dual-wielding weapons for Halo 2, arguing that these kind of innovations have to be carefully designed into the game's schedule, to be mapped out during a pre-production process.

Some of the most interesting footage and information came at the end of the piece, when Young talked about the latest iteration of the Medal Of Honor series for PlayStation 3, currently in development at EA Los Angeles. He revealed that, while still early in development, the PS3 version of the game was already fill-rate bound, leaving 4 SPUs of the PlayStation 3 ready to be used for code-powered effects such as physics, particles, AI, and so on.

He also advanced his theory that, while only 20% of the processing power would be used for processes other than rendering in the current generation, as much as 50% would be available for AI, physics, and other such tasks in the next generation. This would hopefully lead to a much more sophisticated experience that isn't just better graphics running on a similar codebase, and while doing this, Electronic Arts is "trying to hold to a [budget] increase of 50% over the current generation" for next generation console titles.


The final video demonstration from Young also showed better graphics in abundance, however. He showcased how Electronic Arts is trying to bridge the 'Uncanny Valley' problem of realistically modeled characters which animate to look totally unbelievable by showing the Ucap motion capture set-up currently running on the EA premises in Vancouver.

As an example, Young showed a video of an actor playing a soldier in Medal Of Honor being motion captured with the incredibly sophisticated mocap set-up, as used in The Matrix sequels, and then showed it transposed into a Medal Of Honor PS3 game scene, where the actor's expressions and frenzied shouting looked wholly believable, with both high resolution models and realistic facial animation. It's clear that EA is putting its massive resources into intelligently solving some of the problems of the upcoming 'HD era', and judging by Young's demonstration in Tokyo, those resources are significant.

The question and answer session at the end of the EA lectures also revealed some extremely interesting details. When discussing staffing and outsourcing possibilities, Young mentioned that, in Los Angeles, Electronic Arts can create about 6 games simultaneously, but has around 500 people in the studio. If each game needs the equivalent of 200 people working on it, then EA LA would actually be tending towards a staff of 1200. But that simply isn't the case, because Young says the company is "trying to focus in-house talent on the things that really make a difference", and is looking to have the less skilled and complex tasks done out of house, presumably by outsourcing it to external companies, as EA has done in the past with The Sims series and New Pencil.

In further remarks, Buchanan discussed the 'common technical structure' over all EA studios, which is intended to be the recently purchased Renderware game engine in the long term - Young indicated that Electronic Arts Los Angeles is on 'the cutting edge' of the implementation of this. Buchanan's key take-away for this move is that: "For the most part, the understanding is that we want to get ready to innovate and experiment, and in order to do that, we need to stop wasting time by re-inventing a rendering or animation engine." Young also mentioned that the version of Renderware being used is what's internally called Renderware 4.5 - essentially, Renderware 4 plus an unspecified EA code-base.

Finally, Young and Buchanan talked a little more about EA Los Angeles' 'cell' structure, with a large amount of interdisciplinary teams moving around to work on projects as necessary, also outlining Electronic Arts' approach to game creation as including three pre-production phases (discovery, pre-production, and 'first-production'), before the ramp up to as many as 150 people in full production on an EA game - with so many staff working on a game, it's almost impossible for there to be any 'unknowns' before production starts.
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Interesting stuff.

There's some disenchantment with the Madden media being circulated around the net.

So EA-LA is pushing the envelope more than other EA studios, if these remarks are true.

Of course a shooter game has a higher bar with so many able competitors. But in sports games, the competition isn't quite as strong.
 
"the PS3 version of the game was already fill-rate bound."

What exactly does that mean, im not the most tech savvy person, kinda sounds like something bad
 
Being fill bound is bad. Pretty much means that the GPU is being worked to it's rendering limit. I don't see how they can use Cell for 'advanced partical' effects if they are fillbound. Particals will chew through fillrate which they obviously are out of....
 
Colourless said:
Being fill bound is bad. Pretty much means that the GPU is being worked to it's rendering limit. I don't see how they can use Cell for 'advanced partical' effects if they are fillbound. Particals will chew through fillrate which they obviously are out of....

Not if you render particles in CELL and composite them.

Also, fillrate bound is not all bad. It means they have hit *a* graphical limit, but that wont necessarily limit graphics. This just means OTHER areas of the GPU can be pushed without affecting the framerate. e.g. This would most likely mean they can use a LOT more shaders.

Another solution is going for 720p. 1080p is 2x the resolution, yet basically no TV's support this. From a market perspective supporting 720p would impact more customers AND would allow more fillrate per screen.
 
Where exactly did you read that the developers were targeting 1080p? Unless stated otherwise I think we can safely assume either 720p or 1080i. (roughly the same size)

"Not if you render particles in CELL and composite them."

I doubt that's very practical. For one, if you're already fill bound then you obviously couldn't use the GPU to composite the layers - composition of two 720p frames would soak up color ROP cycles very quickly.
 
Is it officially a PS3 exclusive? Having acquired Renderware, for EA to start making exclusives now seems a crazy shift in gameplan.
 
wrongdoer said:
That sounds like 360 version still have fillrate to spare!

That's interesting - it doesn't mention a X360 version at all!

If the bound wasn't fillrate it'd be something else..

It only becomes a "bad thing" if it's keeping performance below an acceptable level.

Anyway, as I said in another thread on this, it sounds promising. Sounds like they're putting some good resources into the game.
 
So the Xbox 360 isn't fill rate bound yet...or...they haven't started working on it yet?

Bah who cares. From now on i'm a "Show me" type of guy.
 
therealskywolf said:
So the Xbox 360 isn't fill rate bound yet...or...they haven't started working on it yet?

They were discussing only the PS3 version here with regards to everything. It seems probable that they haven't started on any X360 version, or if they have, that it isn't far enough along yet to talk about.
 
Good GRIEF!!! The point of the article was more a case of 'Wow, we've maxxed the graphics and still have of loads of processor to spare! Last gen, once we'd done the graphics we only had 20% of the processor left for AI and physics and stuff but now we've got loads more to work on fun stuff! Woohoo!'

It wasn't talking about 'oh no, PS3's fillrate limited. It's crap' or 'PS3's fillrate limited whereas XB360 has buckets to spare, 'coz XB360 ownz PS3'. There was no mention at all of XB360. Once again people seem to be trying to draw conlusions or comparisons from thin air. It's astounding how some comments are always interpretted as negative one way or another regardless of how their worded! If PS3 was fillrate bound with 90% of the CPU used up what would the response be then? No CPU left for physics and AI? PS3's crap! XB360's ownz PS3 because we've no information on whether it has more CPU left over after fillrate is saturated so we'll just assume it's better? Maybe you'd all rather the PS3 had so much fillrate that it was shader bound. Would that be prefereable? Or maybe you want more graphics power so the physics get CPU bound long before you have enough objects on screen to bring the GPU grinding to a halt?

These are finite systems, people! Something's going to top out somewhere. Looking at the visuals we're getting next gen is it REALLY that bad that we've got that level of visuals from 1st generation games with no more fillrate to spare? Are you really desperate for better graphics and would rather have less CPU capacity for physics and AI?

Gosh, I'm getting irrate :D
 
while only 20% of the processing power would be used for processes other than rendering in the current generation, as much as 50% would be available for AI, physics, and other such tasks in the next generation.
4 SPUs of the PlayStation 3 ready to be used for code-powered effects such as physics, particles, AI, and so on.
Don't know much about game development, but my interpretation of this article is that they are simply comparing the superiority of next gen (PS3) to current gen (PS2/Xbox).
And they are pointing out that after maxing out the graphics rendering and becoming fillrate bound on both the current and next gen consoles the processing power remaining for AI, particles, physics, etc. is:

20% Current Gen
50% Next Gen (4 SPUs free on PS3)


So along with having far superior graphics the next generation will also have the processing power available for a much improved codebase to match those graphics.

"This would hopefully lead to a much more sophisticated experience that isn't just better graphics running on a similar codebase" [50% next gen compared to 20% current gen]
There is nothing in this article that denotes that the PS3 is greater than X360 or vice versa.

-aldo
 
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