Tekken 4 realtime cinemas...
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Logan Leonhart
Newcomer
I´ve been playing T4 extensively for the past week, and all I´ve got to say is that it kicks VF4´s sorry ass! T4 is that amazing. Sure, it may have a bit less depth, but it´s so much more fun! It looks amazing (much, much better than VF4), the characters´s movements are much more fluid, the gameplay is very fast, and the music is way better than those annoying electric guitar tracks in VF4. What can I say except that it is much, much better than VF4. 8)
Tekken4 can't be more fluid than VF4. The amount of animation frames employed in VF4 is far higher than both Tekken4 and DOA3. That's why defensive tactics using recovery is far more important in VF4 while Tekken4 relies on all out offensive comboes that are varied depending on the environment.
Of course, Tekken4 has finally turned into a solid fighting game that can now be described as deep. Too bad many Tekken fans still stick to TTT.
As for VF4 looking bad, I guess N@omi2 was little too much for PSX2 to handle. Still, it pushes out mad lighting which is a good thing. I hope VF 4.1 (Evo) comes out in either G^3 and X-box to do full arcade justice.
Of course, I've come to realization great graphics and animation isn't the only thing a good fighting game needs. Street Fighter EX3, while retaining its 2D root, is actually quite solid game with extremely sophisticated fighting engines. And we are talking about first gen PSX2 game that looks worse than Soul Calibur here.
(Kolgar, Ozy, thanks)
Of course, Tekken4 has finally turned into a solid fighting game that can now be described as deep. Too bad many Tekken fans still stick to TTT.
As for VF4 looking bad, I guess N@omi2 was little too much for PSX2 to handle. Still, it pushes out mad lighting which is a good thing. I hope VF 4.1 (Evo) comes out in either G^3 and X-box to do full arcade justice.
Of course, I've come to realization great graphics and animation isn't the only thing a good fighting game needs. Street Fighter EX3, while retaining its 2D root, is actually quite solid game with extremely sophisticated fighting engines. And we are talking about first gen PSX2 game that looks worse than Soul Calibur here.
(Kolgar, Ozy, thanks)
Logan Leonhart
Newcomer
I wasn´t talking about Frames of animation, what I was refering to was fluidity of gameplay. You know, in VF4 you always have to move so stiltedly, always on the defense and looking for a counter move, either it be a punch, a kick or a sidestep, the problem being that there are many rules that damage potentially fun gameplay.
In T4, you can be VERY offensive, and be able to have a very healthy chance of being the winner, or you can be a very smart defensive player that uses the exact moves to interrupt the other player´s combos with a move. Xiayu is my favorite thus far, she has many stances, defensive and smart offensive moves. I can taunt an oponent with quick punches, a fast combo, or defend and wait for a good opening to unleash a throw.
I just don´t find VF4 to be fun, more like frustrating. There are too many rules for my liking, aerial combat is almost nonexistant (you just can´t reproduce Hwoarang´s amazing tae kwon do moves in a VF game), and it´s just not fun to remember so many moves and rules with that amazingly limited control scheme. Someone needs to tell Yu that we´ve had more than 3 face buttons since the SNES.
BTW, I REALLY doubt NAOMI 2´s capabilities had anything to do with the lame-ass, all-around crappy port. It was a rushed PS2 port, and AM2´s first try at coding for the PS2. I mean, T4 looks WAY better than it, and they´re both on the same machine.
In T4, you can be VERY offensive, and be able to have a very healthy chance of being the winner, or you can be a very smart defensive player that uses the exact moves to interrupt the other player´s combos with a move. Xiayu is my favorite thus far, she has many stances, defensive and smart offensive moves. I can taunt an oponent with quick punches, a fast combo, or defend and wait for a good opening to unleash a throw.
I just don´t find VF4 to be fun, more like frustrating. There are too many rules for my liking, aerial combat is almost nonexistant (you just can´t reproduce Hwoarang´s amazing tae kwon do moves in a VF game), and it´s just not fun to remember so many moves and rules with that amazingly limited control scheme. Someone needs to tell Yu that we´ve had more than 3 face buttons since the SNES.
BTW, I REALLY doubt NAOMI 2´s capabilities had anything to do with the lame-ass, all-around crappy port. It was a rushed PS2 port, and AM2´s first try at coding for the PS2. I mean, T4 looks WAY better than it, and they´re both on the same machine.
If you ask me the largest problem i noticed in vf4 for PS2 was the nasty textures. I am not to sure the PS2 can improve apon the Naomi2 (or even equal it).
Honestly i was never to fond of the VF series. Characters deal far to much damage and the animations run through far to quickly for powerful attacks. Soul Calibur (with the exclusion of some of that BS you can pull with asteroth) seems like a far more appealing engine in that respect. Tekken 4 is great but the combos are generally more difficult to pull off then other fighters. DOA definately needs counter breakers for those "no talent ass clowns" who see it fit to play on the defensive.
Honestly i was never to fond of the VF series. Characters deal far to much damage and the animations run through far to quickly for powerful attacks. Soul Calibur (with the exclusion of some of that BS you can pull with asteroth) seems like a far more appealing engine in that respect. Tekken 4 is great but the combos are generally more difficult to pull off then other fighters. DOA definately needs counter breakers for those "no talent ass clowns" who see it fit to play on the defensive.
Yep, it's all about the fun.
I find Tekken the most fun because I love the offense-heavy gameplay. I also like the over-the-top moves. Realism isn't important for me - after a long day at work, I'm frankly pretty tired of realism.
Surprisingly, I like VF4 OK too. It's a hard-hitting fighter, that's for sure. And a good challenge. Too bad about that aliasing though.
DOA3 seemed like tons of fun at first, but... Something's missing. I guess I don't appreciate the character designs as much as the other games. And that end boss - lame!
Kolgar
I find Tekken the most fun because I love the offense-heavy gameplay. I also like the over-the-top moves. Realism isn't important for me - after a long day at work, I'm frankly pretty tired of realism.
Surprisingly, I like VF4 OK too. It's a hard-hitting fighter, that's for sure. And a good challenge. Too bad about that aliasing though.
DOA3 seemed like tons of fun at first, but... Something's missing. I guess I don't appreciate the character designs as much as the other games. And that end boss - lame!
Kolgar
Logan Leonhart : Now, I get what you mean. Yes, Tekken has been known for sheer joy of pulling off crazy moves. (not necessarily combos, but combos do count too) I think one of the reasons why Tekken is so popular is the amount of follow-ups that can be continued. What I like about Tekken4 is, different follow-ups must be chained depending on the environment (like whether or not there is an obstacle behind you, or whether or not your opponent is falling high or low) Something that was more of a pain in VF3 engine now works extremely well in Tekken4. I guess a lot of people prefer the agile and fast and furious (and...little bit mythical like Street Fighter) fighter than VF where turtling is extremely important, thus may not be seen as flashy to the others. That's fine. While I understand the appealing factors of Tekken4, I still need to point about its flaws. While all out offensive is fine and dandy, in my opinion, it shouldn't be the only Prima Donna of your arsenals. My definition of good fighting game is "Huge risk = huge payoff/ little risk = little payoff" and both DOA and Tekken (also including Soul Calibur which shares much with Tekken) somewhat fails in this area. Yes, unlike DOA2, at least Tekken have decent recovery lag on moves performed, but it's still not enough to punish your opponent whenever they make a silly move. That, IMO, makes it a bit like Marvel vs. Capcom, where you HAVE to go all out offensive in order to win. Also, due to the nature of Tekken's offensive nature, there are unrefined balance issues like infinites and so on. Cheap Tekken players might exploit a bug in order to win, and that may not make everyone happy, not to mention both T4 and SC is button masher friendly. (This...unfortunately exists up to certain extent in VF4 too.) Of course, you cannot have both crazy and cool offensive style along with a good defense. So, I can't really blame Tekken here. Whatever that is, I'd like to rephrase, that Tekken4 has certainly has turned out to be a very solid game that is both easy to get into and deep. That's one of the success factor.
Regarding VF4, it's not uncommon that it is misunderstood by so many people. Mind you, it CAN be intensive and furious just as much as Tekken depending on the people playing. Since this VF4 shares closer ties with VF2, the combos can be amazing to look at as well. Unfortunately, it's a bit hard to do that. Many people "fail" to find "fun" in this series. Myself included. I tried to "love" VF. I bought 32X VF1,Saturn VF2, Dreamcast VF3 to practice to at least like it. Of course, I get whooped by the AI all the time as I quite don't have reflex for judging the timing between offense and defence. While I have currently given up due to my impatience, watching those videos of matches by real VF players pump up my desire to get better. I'm sure you all understand. VF has a steep learning curve. Even though it's easened up a bit in VF4, it's still too technical to enjoy it casually. This is kind of a game where you need to practice and practice in order to be good, and thus truly be able to enjoy the game.
PSX2 VF4 is not a crappy port. The only serious flaw I have noticed is resolution. Textures are quite decent (although still lacking compared to N@omi2) The modelling is almost perfect, and the best of all, the meat of the game, the gameplay is completely intact. While the arcade version of VF4 eats Tekken4 for dinner graphically, the PSX2 port is still not too bad. It's anything but rushed either. AM2 has taken use of texture swapping extensively. Sure it was a hell to them, but they at least pulled it off, although the result was little underwhelming.
Kolgar : At least you'll have to applaud Sega for including a kick ass extra features for VF4. Frankly, I never knew Sega would go that far.
Regarding VF4, it's not uncommon that it is misunderstood by so many people. Mind you, it CAN be intensive and furious just as much as Tekken depending on the people playing. Since this VF4 shares closer ties with VF2, the combos can be amazing to look at as well. Unfortunately, it's a bit hard to do that. Many people "fail" to find "fun" in this series. Myself included. I tried to "love" VF. I bought 32X VF1,Saturn VF2, Dreamcast VF3 to practice to at least like it. Of course, I get whooped by the AI all the time as I quite don't have reflex for judging the timing between offense and defence. While I have currently given up due to my impatience, watching those videos of matches by real VF players pump up my desire to get better. I'm sure you all understand. VF has a steep learning curve. Even though it's easened up a bit in VF4, it's still too technical to enjoy it casually. This is kind of a game where you need to practice and practice in order to be good, and thus truly be able to enjoy the game.
PSX2 VF4 is not a crappy port. The only serious flaw I have noticed is resolution. Textures are quite decent (although still lacking compared to N@omi2) The modelling is almost perfect, and the best of all, the meat of the game, the gameplay is completely intact. While the arcade version of VF4 eats Tekken4 for dinner graphically, the PSX2 port is still not too bad. It's anything but rushed either. AM2 has taken use of texture swapping extensively. Sure it was a hell to them, but they at least pulled it off, although the result was little underwhelming.
Kolgar : At least you'll have to applaud Sega for including a kick ass extra features for VF4. Frankly, I never knew Sega would go that far.
I think what you meant is not offense-heavy gameplay, more like mindless button mashing, which is pretty good to unwind after a long day at work
Actually, if you say turtling is extemely important in VF, that's just show your style of play in VF. Turtling is only done in VF, if you don't know any better.
VF4 is still quite lenient in the way moves can be string together compare to VF2 as well as command input is quite lenient compare to VF2. I think Sega, should return this aspect back to VF2, where command accuracy and timing accuracy are very important.
You got whooped by the AI ? You must be kidding. Even on hardest difficulty with CPU life bars set to max and yours set to min, its pretty easy to beat the CPU.
VF is easy, if you managed to blocked successfuly opponent attack most moves can be counter with PK, if opponent missed attack completely throw, simple enough huh ? you can win with PK and throws alone against CPU.
But that's boring, what you want to do is get your opponent to a condition where they are predictable. When you can do that, than you start to know what you are doing.
Higher level player and Button masher, can't be condition. That's where reflex can be useful. Knowing your opponent is also useful. But these two are quite hard, its easier if you take initiative from the beginning.
Keep it that way, the game is not supposed to be enjoyed casually. But seriously I only spend about $20 in arcade, on VF1 first time I played it, and it was pretty fun already.
But, Frankly, I am growing tired of VF and fighting games in general, after more than a decade playing alot of fighting games, I am just started to grow tired of them all. I think I am going to take a break from them until VF5
You know you are playing too much videogames, when every videogames you play felt like they are in slow motion, which makes them ridiculously easy.
V3,
How's VF Evo? How do the two new guys play? And how much did they change Akira?
OT: I ran across SC II in a local arcade here. I thought it was still in test in Japan!! Anyways, its a WICKED game. Felt a little bit too much like SC I (which isnt bad really), and the stages are still bland, but the game was much fun.
zurich
How's VF Evo? How do the two new guys play? And how much did they change Akira?
OT: I ran across SC II in a local arcade here. I thought it was still in test in Japan!! Anyways, its a WICKED game. Felt a little bit too much like SC I (which isnt bad really), and the stages are still bland, but the game was much fun.
zurich
Evo is great. They change everyone quite abit. Goh is the more interesting and more popular of the two. Honestly I rather AM2 put in back Taka than putting Burn in there.
Akira, change quite abit, new moves, that's long overdue, he moves more like a Hakkyokuken practicioners now, than a stiff looking brick. Everyone moves changes abit, they all look more natural now.
They probably need a few rivision, to get everything right, since they change quite alot of things in this refresh, compare to previous ones.
I am playing Samba De Amigo, and Keyboard Mania, abit more than fighting games or racing games at the moment. For some reasons getting perfect score in those games is more satisfying than keeping winning streak in fighting games.
Akira, change quite abit, new moves, that's long overdue, he moves more like a Hakkyokuken practicioners now, than a stiff looking brick. Everyone moves changes abit, they all look more natural now.
They probably need a few rivision, to get everything right, since they change quite alot of things in this refresh, compare to previous ones.
I am playing Samba De Amigo, and Keyboard Mania, abit more than fighting games or racing games at the moment. For some reasons getting perfect score in those games is more satisfying than keeping winning streak in fighting games.
Mr. Angry Pants
Newcomer
I really wish Sega would bring VF4 Evo to the Xbox. Textures were the only serious flaw in the PS2 port, and the Xbox is a texture-zilla.
I'd like fighting options on the Xbox besides DOA3 and Capcom vs. SNK 2. I don't consider the Kakuto Chojin an option, since the game sounds worse and worse with every update.
I'd like fighting options on the Xbox besides DOA3 and Capcom vs. SNK 2. I don't consider the Kakuto Chojin an option, since the game sounds worse and worse with every update.
Hey, V3. Nice post. I guess you corrected me on a several account. Ok, whether you intended this or not, you gave me an encouragement to take on AI and whoop it the other way around. (Pai is tough though)
I used to be bored of 2D fighting games after Street Fighter2. Thank goodness King of Fighters is here to stay. I bet online vs. match will rejuvinate your desire to enjoy fighting games again.
I used to be bored of 2D fighting games after Street Fighter2. Thank goodness King of Fighters is here to stay. I bet online vs. match will rejuvinate your desire to enjoy fighting games again.
What's the point of depth and skill in a fighting game?
If I wanted a deep counter system and gameplay that requires a lot of skill, I'd go play Starcraft or something. When I play a fighting game, the two factors I look for are how cool it looks, and the stress-relieving fun of mashing buttons non-stop and watching absurdly powerful combos come out of nowhere. (If an infinite amount of monkeys mashed on an infinite amount of PS2 controllers, they'd win every game with a Shinku Hadoken...)
Thus, Tekken and DoA are both fun, as is MvC, while VF is less appealing to me.
If I wanted a deep counter system and gameplay that requires a lot of skill, I'd go play Starcraft or something. When I play a fighting game, the two factors I look for are how cool it looks, and the stress-relieving fun of mashing buttons non-stop and watching absurdly powerful combos come out of nowhere. (If an infinite amount of monkeys mashed on an infinite amount of PS2 controllers, they'd win every game with a Shinku Hadoken...)
Thus, Tekken and DoA are both fun, as is MvC, while VF is less appealing to me.
BoddoZerg said:
So, it's wrong for a fighting game to have a depth while it's ok for other genres? That's a flawed logic. Not that I think Starcraft is a deep RTSS or something. Dark Reign2 and Total Annihilation both blow Starcraft away in terms of depth IMO. That's besides the point. Like you said, if there are people that like Starcraft because of depth, there are certainly people who will appreciate Virtua Fighter for its depth. I prefer The King of Fighters over any other 2D fighting games because it has certain depth. (despite King of Fighters having a 16bit graphics on NeoGeo) It's not mindless as MVC, but does not have a steep learning curve like Street Fighter3. A lot of fighting games are actually close to RTSS in a way. You have to anticipate what your opponent is thinking. You can either set up a trap and await for your opponent to fall in. Of course, both of the players need to use variety of tactics. Because once they become predictable, than that's the end of them. My bro can easily punish because he knows I'm too frequent with jump-ins. (not that I always jump or anything.) Regarding Tekken, I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate Tekken4's improved depth over TTT. I know some Tekken fans prefer TTT because of Tekken4's somewhat high learning curve for a Tekken game.
KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back
Four words for YOU:
Virtual ON: Oratorio Tangram
(my favourite fighter)
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back
Tagrineth said:Four words for you all:
Super Smash Bros.: Melée
Four words for YOU:
Virtual ON: Oratorio Tangram
(my favourite fighter)
VF matches is over in 30 sec, Starcraft is abit longer than that.
But I don't see VF is something with depth and skill, VF is alot more simple compare to Tekken, and certainly alot more simple than some of Capcom 2D fighters.
Perhaps, what you means, is that in other figthers, you can achieve so much with so little button mashing.
Logan Leonhart
Newcomer
Ozymandis said:KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back
LOL
Loser!!
I would like to say that I would beat you all with Aoi, but I just got tired of fumbling my way through the game
and ditched it for T4.8)Logan Leonhart said:Ozymandis said:KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back
LOL
Loser!!
I would like to say that I would beat you all with Aoi, but I just got tired of fumbling my way through the game
I've never tried playing with Aoi. She seems like she could be formidable in the hands of a skilled player (seems to me like many of the VF characters are like that though).