STEAMing Pile...

75% is what Valve takes from any purchase in Steam Workshop AFAIK.

As far as you know from where? Again there is nothing released on any FAQs or info about this. Where did this number come from? It doesn't indicate anything about Valve taking a specific cut.

As for the rest:
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoppaymentinfofaq/

For the modder to receive anything, Valve must receive $400 beforehand from the mod's revenue.
Where on that page does it mention anything about $400 to valve before they get anything? All I see is that the modder must earn $100 or more before any payment is sent to them.
 
It was the guy who put the mod on sale that took it down, as you can see from his post.

In the meanwhile, the Workshop is already being flooded with stolen material from Nexus and useless and absurdly priced mods like the Horse Genitals.

Over at Nexus, things are getting equally disgusting. They're reporting that the modders are frantically pulling all their mods from the site, for fear of having their content stolen and put into the Workshop.
 
Yep it's a ridiculous situation that is going to probably destroy the modding community, especially at Nexus.

I still don't see anything about 75% or $400, I'm going to reserve judgement on that until some actual information is available. I don't see why Valve would take that much, their normal cut is 30% of anything.
 
As far as you know from where? Again there is nothing released on any FAQs or info about this. Where did this number come from? It doesn't indicate anything about Valve taking a specific cut.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=72850#Earning
Selling your creations
When an item is sold via the Steam Workshop, revenue is shared between Valve (for transaction costs, fraud, bandwidth & hosting costs, building & supporting the Steam platform), the game developer (for creation of the game and the game's universe, the marketing to build an audience, the included assets, and any included modding or editing tools), and the item creator (including any specified contributors).

The percentage of revenue an item creator receives from direct sales of their item in this Workshop is 25%, as stipulated in the Supplemental Workshop Terms. Your individual share may be smaller if you have added other contributors that share in the royalty payments.


Where on that page does it mention anything about $400 to valve before they get anything? All I see is that the modder must earn $100 or more before any payment is sent to them.
What the hell is wrong with you today? $100 is 25% of $400.
They say they'll only transfer money to the modders when their payout totals $100 or more. Therefore, the items from the modder in question must earn Valve a total of $400, before the said modder ever sees a cent.





Making the modders sign NDAs about the imminent paywalled mods, telling them they can use other modders' assets to get money, charging 75% of the mod's revenues but then relegating the tech support to the goodwill of the guy who made 25% out of it...
This thing is shady as hell. What the hell went through their minds?
 
Thank you, that's all I asked for. I was looking around the areas the news linked to and couldn't find the verbiage. I assumed the $400 was due to the 75% cut and wanted to confirm that value.

Seems a tad high but since there's a lot more involved that just simply selling a product on Steam (bank transfers, dealing with tax/irs etc, paying the game developer) it was going to be more than 30%. Of course the volume on Steam is there but damn that's a big cut of the income.

Looks like Nexus have already made some good changes to the way they're vetting new mods, protecting their existing mods and making it easier for mods authors to get donations.
 
Why the hell should the game developer be paid if they already got paid for what they produced (the game) and the mods are were one of the biggest incentives to buy the game in the first place?
Bethesda has stated publicly that Skyrim sold in the PC way more than they ever imagined because of the mods that people made for their game for free:
“PC is resurgent,” enthused Howard. “Skyrim did better than we’ve ever done on PC by a large, large number. And that’s where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time.

Again: this doesn't sound like Bethesda at all.. or even Valve. This stinks of Zenimax.
 
It seems this whole idea was not very well thought out by any of the parties involved.
 
Where did this number come from? It doesn't indicate anything about Valve taking a specific cut.
Valve are the ones administering the payments, so they take the money, initially. How they distribute the money between themselves and third party publishers is probably trade secrets. IIRC, Valve doesn't even publish sales figures from Steam, so they probably won't disclose this information either.

Where on that page does it mention anything about $400 to valve before they get anything? All I see is that the modder must earn $100 or more before any payment is sent to them.
Simple arithmetics: if you only earn a quarter on the dollar, how much must customers shop for before you, the author, have earned $100?
 
I believe allowing content creators to generate revenue on derivative works (i.e. mods) should generally be considered a good thing. It also could create incentives for IP holders to make more games moddable.

However, many modding toolkits and mod-licences I have seen also grants the original IP holder an royalty free transferable license to the mod. This may yield a (short term?) incentive for the original IP holder to allow (if not encourage) all kinds of nasty rent-seeking behavior as long as they benefit financially from it, regardless of what the actual content creator of a particular mod should have to say about it.

This may be to the direct detriment of content creators wanting to preserve a free and open modding community.

Then there's probably different interpretations of both copyright law and contract law in different jurisdictions, which may cause this (that in theory could be a good thing) to result in all kinds of practical and legal problems that will hurt the "modding community" at large in the longer term.
 
The real crime is Valve's 30% take on any game sold on Steam. Damn that's high.

I thought that was a fairly standard practise for digital stores (aside from MS/Sony etc negotiating with the Publishers for whatever deals).

It also could create incentives for IP holders to make more games moddable.
...

This may be to the direct detriment of content creators wanting to preserve a free and open modding community.

Barbie characters! EVERYWHERE. ;)

Or at least more attractive faces/hairstyles for Bioware. >_>
 
That is not correct. For the last time Valve does not get 75% (http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850). What you are linking to is Skyrim specific. Valve probably only gets 30% if I had to guess. The rest is determined by Bethesda.

I do know that Valve doesn't keep the 75%, that's what they retain from the sales of each item and the modder only gets 25%, which is what makes the $400 requirement still true.
Regardless, I read somewhere that Valve does keep 75% for Workshop items sold for Valve games (DOTA 2, TF2). (EDIT: see for yourself, it says "25% revenue share" in the right column)
But the added percentage comes from Valve having the obligation to test, validate and provide tech support for each item that is sold.
In this case, Bethesda (who supposedly gets 40%) gets a buttload of free money with zero responsibilities. And if a problem arises with a mod, after the very extensive refund period of 24 hours, customers are told to politely ask the mod developer to fix their problem. The same mod developer who has zero obligation to do so and was ripped of 75% of the content he created.
 
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I thought that was a fairly standard practise for digital stores (aside from MS/Sony etc negotiating with the Publishers for whatever deals).
That's probably true but I generally expect better from Valve. I know they aren't perfect (with the EULA crap they dropped on us) but they have been vastly less abusive than most would be in their position IMO. I imagine what things would be like if EA or Ubisoft ran Steam... things like this paid mod controversy would be business as usual rather than headline (gaming) news.

25% would be absolutely fair I think, so I guess 30% isn't that far off.
 
I don't like mods and haven't used one since the World of Warcraft raiding days some odd years ago. But it's still nice that mod devs get some money if they choose to put price on 'em. I wouldn't buy 'em but there's always customers for this type of stuff.
 
From the guy who pulled the mod:

Hello everyone,
I would like to address the current situation regarding Arissa, and Art of the Catch, an animated fishing mod scripted by myself and animated by Aqqh.
It now lives in modding history as the first paid mod to be removed due to a copyright dispute. Recent articles on Kotaku and Destructiod have positioned me as a content thief. Of course, the truth is more complex than that.
I will now reveal some information about some internal discussions that have occurred at Valve in the month leading up to this announcement, more than you've heard anywhere else.
I'll start with the human factor. Imagine you wake up one morning, and sitting in your inbox is an email directly from Valve, with a Bethesda staff member cc'd. And they want YOU, yes, you, to participate in a new and exciting program. Well, shit. What am I supposed to say? These kinds of opportunities happen once in a lifetime. It was a very persuasive and attractive situation.
We were given about a month and a half to prepare our content. As anyone here knows, large DLC-sized mods don't happen in a month and a half. During this time, we were required to not speak to anyone about this program. And when a company like Valve or Bethesda tells you not to do something, you tend to listen.
I knew this would cause backlash, trust me. But I also knew that, with the right support and infrastructure in place, there was an opportunity to take modding to "the next level", where there are more things like Falskaar in the world because the incentive was there to do it. The boundary between "what I'm willing to do as a hobby" and "what I'm willing to do if someone paid me to do it" shifts, and more quality content gets produced. That to me sounded great for everyone. Hobbyists will continue to be hobbyists, while those that excel can create some truly magnificent work. In the case of Arissa, there are material costs associated with producing that mod (studio time, sound editing, and so on). To be able to support Arissa professionally also sounded great.
Things internally stayed rather positive and exciting until some of us discovered that "25% Revenue Share" meant 25% to the modder, not to Valve / Bethesda. This sparked a long internal discussion. My key argument to Bethesda (putting my own head on the chopping block at the time) was that this model incentivizes small, cheap to produce items (time-wise) than it does the large, full-scale mods that this system has the opportunity of championing. It does not reward the best and the biggest. But at the heart of it, the argument came down to this: How much would you pay for front-page Steam coverage? How much would you pay to use someone else's successful IP (with nearly no restrictions) for a commercial purpose? I know indie developers that would sell their houses for such an opportunity. And 25%, when someone else is doing the marketing, PR, brand building, sales, and so on, and all I have to do is "make stuff", is actually pretty attractive. Is it fair? No. But it was an experiment I was willing to at least try.
Of course, the modding community is a complex, tangled web of interdependencies and contributions. There were a lot of questions surrounding the use of tools and contributed assets, like FNIS, SKSE, SkyUI, and so on. The answer we were given is:
[Valve] Officer Mar 25 @ 4:47pm
Usual caveat: I am not a lawyer, so this does not constitute legal advice. If you are unsure, you should contact a lawyer. That said, I spoke with our lawyer and having mod A depend on mod B is fine--it doesn't matter if mod A is for sale and mod B is free, or if mod A is free or mod B is for sale.
Art of the Catch required the download of a separate animation package, which was available for free, and contained an FNIS behavior file. Art of the Catch will function without this download, but any layman can of course see that a major component of it's enjoyment required FNIS. Was this a risky, perhaps bold, thing to go ahead with? Yes. Was it a bit crappy of me? Also yes. But it was a risk I took, and the outcome was largely dependent on the FNIS author's reaction to the situation. He was not happy, so I took steps to resolve it. I did not "steal animations" or "steal content".
After a discussion with Fore, I made the decision to pull Art of the Catch down myself. (It was not removed by a staff member) Fore and I have talked since and we are OK.
I have also requested that the pages for Art of the Catch and Arissa be completely taken down. Valve's stance is that they "cannot" completely remove an item from the Workshop if it is for sale, only allow it to be marked as unpurchaseable. I feel like I have been left to twist in the wind by Valve and Bethesda.
In light of all of the above, and with the complete lack of moderation control over the hundreds of spam and attack messages I have received on Steam and off, I am making the decision to leave the curated Workshop behind. I will be refunding all PayPal donations that have occurred today and yesterday.
I am also considering removing my content from the Nexus. Why? The problem is that Robin et al, for perfectly good political reasons, have positioned themselves as essentially the champions of free mods and that they would never implement a for-pay system. However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales. They are saying one thing, while simultaneously taking their cut. I'm not sure I'm comfortable supporting that any longer. I may just host my mods on my own site for anyone who is interested.
What I need to happen, right now, is for modding to return to its place in my life where it's a fun side hobby, instead of taking over my life. That starts now. Or just give it up entirely; I have other things I could spend my energy on.
Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable.
 
Wow this whole thing is a real mess.

From Nexus' Dark One on reddit

Well, I guess I'm on the side of the modder if I'm getting money from Valve, because the only way I get that money is if the mod author themselves specifically says they want the Nexus to receive a small portion of Valve's cut... :)

For some reason you seem to think I'm militantly against paid modding. No where have I said I am. I've said, in 6,000 words over the past month no less, that the Nexus will remain free because I want it to remain free, and even if I could charge for mods, I wouldn't. But I have also said I do not begrudge any mod authors who want to make money from their work.

If you think receiving a measly sum of money from Valve changes anything or dictates anything to me, with the blessings of the mod authors who have specifically and graciously said that the Nexus has helped them enough at some point during their modding development for them to want the Nexus to take a small cut of Valve's profits, then you're wrong. Look at my last news post where I slam the awful situation with assets being used in paid mods without permission. I'm hardly pulling any punches.

I understand you're passionate about this issue, but seriously, I don't know where you got that I was on the side of free modding. I'm on the side of keeping the Nexus free and maintaining the great community we've all managed to make together. What goes on outside of the Nexus is something I'm utterly uninterested in championing or fighting. And I've said nothing to the contrary on that point. I'll work my damnest to keep mod authors and users on the Nexus happy, as I've always done.
 
I think people are upset because now they might have to pay for something they were previously given. You can't expect people to continue give you stuff.
 
Ummm, the Nexus have been profitting off the work of modders for far longer than the Steam Workshop has existed. Of course they want to position themselves as the good guys, it'll make them more money.

Regards,
SB
Of course they have, but the modders have also received lots of donations. The nexus is a massive site that requires a lot of servers and hosting resources. Their most recent upgrade cost over $250k to them. I've been a premium member 3 separate times and appreciate what they provide for the cost.
 
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