Steam Deck - SteamOS, Zen2 4C/8T, RDNA2 1.0-1.6 TF, 16 GB LPDDR5 88 GB/s, starting at $399 [2021-12]

My experiences with Linux

I've been using Pop OS for a few days and also have installed Steam OS.

I like Pop OS quite a bit, which I have already mentioned.

Now I will comment on where you are going to find difficulties if you are not used to Linux:

Pop OS
- Better to do Clean Install -only if you have more than one hard disk-, since if you have to deal with partitions on a shared hard disk it is easy to mess it all up-
- It has worked very well for me and it has a simple interface. Still strange things can happen:

The updates are automatic, but there was one of an OBDC something, which offered the option Update or Update All and it entered an infinite update loop, it seemed to go well, but again the OS told you there was an updade, an update of 512KB, rinse and repeat forever. :???:

- Apps like Steam seem to see different things than Linux's File Explorer does.

For example, I created a new SteamLibrary folder to copy the games that I have in the Windows partition and "recover" them with the Steam app. But Steam sees totally different things than Linux File Explorer sees and I could never find that folder I created. :cry:

The File Explorer itself can give problems in this regard. I am a noob and that SteamLibrary folder could not be found in my username/Home, but I swear I had created it in Home. :unsure:

This confused me a bit and I did not like it, I could not recover the games and with my connection it takes days to download them, but I had copied them to that SteamLibrary folder. Sigh..

Steam OS ..., i
I's like having a console interface. Okay, but ONLY for that. It is not usable at all. I was not able to get out of Steam's Big Picture mode in order to try to make something usable with the OS.

I think it would be close to impossible to use your games from GoG or other platforms. If you have everything on Steam and you're only going to play there, then fine.

Pop OS will continue to use, Steam OS I will not.

It is not a walk in the park, things have changed a lot but it takes time for those who use Windows and there are also things less "visual" than in Windows, such as the folders I mentioned.

I don't even want to imagine how most people who want to fiddle with game files or use special options will manage...:rolleyes:
 
hughJ said:
Not posing restrictions isn't the same thing as engineering the input hardware/driver/software to be equivalently operable across all games/storefronts. The Steam Controller having Windows drivers doesn't mean it's a PnP xinput controller. It's a great controller... provided you use it through Steam. The Vive/Index are great VR hardware... provided you use it through Steam. Power users may be willing to put up with the overall Windows UX being poorly tailored for the Deck, but at some point the value of the device (rather than a laptop) is that it's an all-in-one unit that's convenient to launch and play games with. That convenience evaporates pretty quickly if how you launch and play games is outside the scope of the product Valve is selling.

If someone is planning on doing 95% of their gaming through Steam anyways, then "There's no reason to believe they won't." is a reasonable position. If someone is expecting to use it mostly for non-Steam, then it would make sense to put a non-zero amount of thought into this and ask some questions.
Click to expand...
even if you are a Steam power user and play 100% of your games there, I see no option as of now, for many people, but to use Windows instead.

The OS is great at what it does, but good luck trying to tinker with game files to play at a certain framerate or with certain options enabled, and so on and so forth. I mean, let's say you have Doom 3 and a 165Hz monitor and want to play it at that framerate. You can modify .ini files in Windows, try that on Linux.

Now I can understand why GoG guys -whose game files have a lot of customisation for compatiblity issues- havent released a Linux version yet.
 
Cyan said:
even if you are a Steam power user and play 100% of your games there, I see no option as of now, for many people, but to use Windows instead.

The OS is great at what it does, but good luck trying to tinker with game files to play at a certain framerate or with certain options enabled, and so on and so forth. I mean, let's say you have Doom 3 and a 165Hz monitor and want to play it at that framerate. You can modify .ini files in Windows, try that on Linux.

Now I can understand why GoG guys -whose game files have a lot of customisation for compatiblity issues- havent released a Linux version yet.
Click to expand...

Why would this be different under different Linux distros? If you want to, you can build an exclusive graphical output for one single game (no desktop etc).
 
Cyan said:
even if you are a Steam power user and play 100% of your games there, I see no option as of now, for many people, but to use Windows instead.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with using the Steam Deck to play Game Pass games?
 
tuna said:
Why would this be different under different Linux distros? If you want to, you can build an exclusive graphical output for one single game (no desktop etc).
Click to expand...
while I am not a Linux expert by any means, other Linux distros -I tried Ubuntu, GentOS, ArchLinux, while studying and some others-, and now my favourite, Pop OS (Cosmic Desktop is the best Linux UI I've seen to date), let you perform useful things rather than looking at Steam's big picture.
hughJ said:
Not posing restrictions isn't the same thing as engineering the input hardware/driver/software to be equivalently operable across all games/storefronts. The Steam Controller having Windows drivers doesn't mean it's a PnP xinput controller. It's a great controller... provided you use it through Steam. The Vive/Index are great VR hardware... provided you use it through Steam. Power users may be willing to put up with the overall Windows UX being poorly tailored for the Deck, but at some point the value of the device (rather than a laptop) is that it's an all-in-one unit that's convenient to launch and play games with. That convenience evaporates pretty quickly if how you launch and play games is outside the scope of the product Valve is selling.

If someone is planning on doing 95% of their gaming through Steam anyways, then "There's no reason to believe they won't." is a reasonable position. If someone is expecting to use it mostly for non-Steam, then it would make sense to put a non-zero amount of thought into this and ask some questions.
Click to expand...
do you mean that the controls might not work or that navigating through games won't be as easy as using Steam app?

Specs aside, my favourite feature about the Steam Deck is the trackpads. If the controls dont work on other OSes like on SteamOS, that goes against the openness of the platform. Not to mention that the foundation of Proton is based on open source and also on proprietary software like Windows.
 
Cyan said:
while I am not a Linux expert by any means, other Linux distros -I tried Ubuntu, GentOS, ArchLinux, while studying and some others-, and now my favourite, Pop OS (Cosmic Desktop is the best Linux UI I've seen to date), let you perform useful things rather than looking at Steam's big picture.
Click to expand...

OK, and how is that related to .ini files/custom setups in games?
 
Cyan said:
do you mean that the controls might not work or that navigating through games won't be as easy as using Steam app?
Click to expand...

How well does the Steam Controller behave with games outside of Steam, and what are the issues?

Just as with the SC, the Deck controls will have to emulate mouse/keyboard functionality in order to provide full featured navigation for the desktop OS, while also allowing applications to treat them as either mouse/keyboard or an Xinput device on a case-by-case basis. With SC this situation is addressed when playing games through Steam because it has a controller config software layer running overtop with a profile manager allowing you to use it as either a M/K or controller and customized to your liking. Launching non-Steam .exes through Steam to take advantage of this can be hit-or-miss (some games don't like the presence of a 3rd party overlay and whatever input emulation hooks Steam is using), which is why GloSC exists to simply globally treat your SC as an xbox controller. Something akin to GloSC for the Deck doesn't really make sense though as you still need the controls to behave like a M/K to navigate the OS, and for certain games where you'd want M/K rather than an xbox controller equivalent. Considering this has been the status quo since the introduction of the Steam Controller ~6 years ago, it's worth thinking about what ought to be expected for the Deck.
 
Very few windows store games support controllers other than xbox controllers. So you need ds4 windows, steam controller wrapper, etc to make them work with other controllers
 
One more thing I've been thinking. What if Valve decided to use the Deck as an enhanced controller for some of their 1st party games, akin to the Wii U concept?
Use the Deck as a WiFi gamepad, the Deck runs their own game executable to present inventory/options or UI or something else.
It's a full fledged gamepad and it doesn't cut corners on ergonomics.


hughJ said:
engineering the input hardware/driver/software to be equivalently operable across all games/storefronts. The Steam Controller having Windows drivers doesn't mean it's a PnP xinput controller. It's a great controller... provided you use it through Steam.
Click to expand...
The Steam Controller lacks the right analog stick so it needs emulation. The Steam Deck doesn't. It should work just fine as x-input.
The touchpads can just be mapped as mouse touchpads.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
One more thing I've been thinking. What if Valve decided to use the Deck as an enhanced controller for some of their 1st party games, akin to the Wii U concept?
Use the Deck as a WiFi gamepad, the Deck runs their own game executable to present inventory/options or UI or something else.
It's a full fledged gamepad and it doesn't cut corners on ergonomics.
Click to expand...

Seems like a very low value use of their development time. WiiU's "pick a screen to look at" concept didn't exactly prove its worth, even with Nintendo's titles.
 
cheapchips said:
Seems like a very low value use of their development time.
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Unlike.. developing a AA/AAA award-winning game on their most anticipated IP exclusively for the tiny amount of people who own PC VR headsets?

At this point, anything that isn't making TF2 hats or managing Steam has a very low ROI in comparison, and Gabe has been very vocal about Valve investing their development efforts into innovative gameplay and forms of interaction.

The Wii U had many flaws and valid complaints, but the gameplay possibilities of the tablet controller was not one of them. It was in fact the one thing every dev spoke highly about.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Unlike.. developing a AA/AAA award-winning game on their most anticipated IP exclusively for the tiny amount of people who own PC VR headsets?
Click to expand...

Index is constantly a best selling device. It's fair to assume it's done well for them in revenue and part of that drive is due to Alyx. Another point is, even if they don't sell 10m copies of Alyx, it's a worthy development effort for the sake of the art.


ToTTenTranz said:
he Wii U had many flaws and valid complaints, but the gameplay possibilities of the tablet controller was not one of them. It was in fact the one thing every dev spoke highly about.
Click to expand...

It'd invite you to name some really cool stuff the Wii second screen did you'd like to see. Map and inventory are fairly mundane and not worth the effort imo.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
The Steam Controller lacks the right analog stick so it needs emulation. The Steam Deck doesn't. It should work just fine as x-input.
The touchpads can just be mapped as mouse touchpads.
Click to expand...

I feel like you're being willfully obtuse on this topic, so I'm not going to pursue this with you any further.
 
hughJ said:
I feel like you're being willfully obtuse on this topic, so I'm not going to pursue this with you any further.
Click to expand...
And I feel you don't need to get so anxious at the thought of Valve releasing Deck's gamepad drivers for windows, or someone daring to use the integrated gamepad in Windows.

Perhaps they will, perhaps they won't. From watching pretty much every single minute of Valve's statements on Steam Deck, I think they will, for the reasons I explained above.
If they don't, it'll be weeks until someone writes a X-imput wrapper and the result is the same.

I don't get why some people are apparently trying to turn this into a Windows vs Linux platform feud. I'll probably use Windows, but to whomever prefers to use SteamOS then more power to them.
 
cheapchips said:
Did I come across as over aggressive or something? :D I was actually curious about WiiU pad uses, beyond the couple that didn't appeal to me.
Click to expand...
You didn't!
I just assumed you wouldn't value any feature from a screen-equipped controller like the Wii U's. We did number a few things that could be done with it at the time. I won't remember them all, but here's some of those I do:

- HUD-less main screen, keeping all the stats in the controller and enhancing immersion
- Inventory / ability management without leaving the main game, which could be very convenient for games like DOTA and all kinds of RPGs
- 2nd screen for controlling gadgets (drones, cameras, etc.), like we saw with Wii U's Batman
- In couch multiiplayer games, making choices that your opponent can't see
 
ToTTenTranz said:
You didn't!
I just assumed you wouldn't value any feature from a screen-equipped controller like the Wii U's. We did number a few things that could be done with it at the time. I won't remember them all, but here's some of those I do:

- HUD-less main screen, keeping all the stats in the controller and enhancing immersion
- Inventory / ability management without leaving the main game, which could be very convenient for games like DOTA and all kinds of RPGs
- 2nd screen for controlling gadgets (drones, cameras, etc.), like we saw with Wii U's Batman
- In couch multiiplayer games, making choices that your opponent can't see
Click to expand...

I like asymmetric multiplayer, although technically the Deck could offer that through local network play.

Wasn't there a game that had you hold up the pad as a ghost seeing camera? Gimmicky but fun.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
And I feel you don't need to get so anxious at the thought of Valve releasing Deck's gamepad drivers for windows, or someone daring to use the integrated gamepad in Windows.

Perhaps they will, perhaps they won't. From watching pretty much every single minute of Valve's statements on Steam Deck, I think they will, for the reasons I explained above.
If they don't, it'll be weeks until someone writes a X-imput wrapper and the result is the same.

I don't get why some people are apparently trying to turn this into a Windows vs Linux platform feud. I'll probably use Windows, but to whomever prefers to use SteamOS then more power to them.
Click to expand...

I'm not anxious about the Deck; I've never even considered buying one. I don't care about Linux/SteamOS vs Windows, or Valve vs other storefronts.

I was questioning what sort of operation should reasonably be expected from the Deck when it comes to applications that are not being launched through Steam, and whether Valve has actually addressed this topic given the commonality between the Deck and SC's programmable all-in-one controls, and the fact that the weakest aspect of the SC was its functionality and user-friendliness outside of the Steam environment. This isn't a problem that's addressed by "having Windows drivers". "Having Windows drivers" doesn't grant the ability for your computer to automagically change your device mapping based on which application is launched/closed, or when that app gains or loses focus. The SC is a hassle outside of Steam, not because Valve deliberately makes it a hassle, but because of the nature of what it's trying to do. Having some global Xinput wrapper isn't a one-size-fits-all solution because it would mean unmapping your M/K emulation thus losing the ability to interface with the OS, so whatever system is in place has to be able to juggle the controls based on the context of application and intent of the user. This is even more of an issue with the Deck than the SC, because there's no expectation of the user having a physical M/K connected to recover the system in cases of the emulation layer crashing or getting confused about whether it should be acting as a M/K or controller.
 
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